Random Query: The Trinity System

[Kurogaea]

the trinity is one of the main reasons i bought this game. there are hundreds of games where i can be a DPS with some self healing tools and stuff. i am playing one right now xD

i bought FF14 because here i can play as just a healer. a healer and nothing else. at least this was the idea xD if they don't go back to the trinity soon i am out of here. just want to reach 1000 posts for some reason xP

Don't we already have the trinity? Healer Tank and DPS?

[Legion88]

Don't we already have the trinity? Healer Tank and DPS?

We have the trinity as basic system but we have DPS with high survivability, normal DPS and DPS which can heal ingame.
This is what i mostly see in my runs, perhaps the difficulty of the dungeons is just to low so the trinity just don't work like intended.

[Kurogaea]

We have the trinity as basic system but we have DPS with high survivability, normal DPS and DPS which can heal ingame.
This is what i mostly see in my runs, perhaps the difficulty of the dungeons is just to low so the trinity just don't work like intended.

You know, if the companion system was implemented at the beginning of the games development, healing classes could be just healing ones instead of healing/dps. Or if we all....GASP.....If we all started as plain characters that can equip basic weapons (to handle PvE overworld stuff) and use job stones to change our entire move sets we could've actually had a full on trinity system in dungeons and raids :O

[Vespar]

So the goal here is really just to have a (unlikely...but I'm trying anyways...) friendly discussion/musing on the Trinity System in this game.

Simply put:
Do you believe FFXIV should keep the Trinity System?
Or
Should it adopt the model where every class is self-sufficient?

Personally I dislike the Trinity system as it is right now, but I also dont think every class should be "Self-sufficient" as this is an MMO, not a single player game.
Ive discussed this sooo many times with my husband I've lost count. I think the trinity system should be ...expanded.

Some (maybe not all) classes could be hybridized to fill 2 roles in the DF system. For example...
A Tanks could also be a DPS if given some abilities that would make their DPS on par with other DPS.. (Obviously while a tank is employing a DPS role, their tanking ability should be limited. So if a tank was filling the DPS role, that tanks' ability to tank should be affected in some way.)

We can already see this to an extent with some classes (ie: SCH/WHM with Cleric stance, and WAR with its stances) but build upon it so it can actually choose to go into DF as a DPS OR as Tank or whatever. Or SCH could become a DPS but give their fairy some magical attack capability. There are myriad ways other classes that could fill other roles if given the abilities to do so.

OR (the better method in my opinion)

Make a new addition to the trinity system. Add in SUPPORT specific roles as an option to the duty finder, and bring out some classes that fill SUPPORT only roles. For example Corsair/Bard/RDM in FFXI. Each of these classes brought some crowd control or support abilities to the party, but their DPS/Healing capability was much lower than that of other classes to reflect the fact that they could boost or aid the party in other ways. For example, FFXI Bard had slow and haste songs, regen songs, a poison debuff song for enemies, etc. Corsair had similar abilities and the ability to boost exp for short periods of time. RDM could fill many roles by being able to do dmg AND heal but to a lesser extent, they also had myriad debuff abilities such as Haste, Slow, Poisons, Stuns, etc. They were an all rounded class that could aid the party in many ways.

[Joe_Schmoe]

Simply put:
Do you believe FFXIV should keep the Trinity System?
Or
Should it adopt the model where every class is self-sufficient?

I'm somewhere in the middle. I'm pro-trinity, but I think they all need to be self-sufficient as well. Forcing people to play together is a bad thing. The way things are now is good, but a system I'd like even more would be the ability to have NPC assistants/mercenaries of various roles by your side at all times, and not just 1 chocobo (this is based on my lvl 5 chocobo that can't do jack s*** at ANY role, though). That way, all 3 roles can be totally focused on their role, and not be forced to hybridize just to be able to solo stuff.

[Legion88]

I would like a hard quadrinity.
Tanks: low damage output, high survivability and stances wich switch damage output and survivability
DPS: high damage output, low to medium survivability (nearly one- to twoshot by trash and bosses), low utility
Healer: high heal capacity, utility, low survivability, low damage output
Support: low heal capacity, low damge output, low to medium survivability, high utility capacity

But this will never happen cause of the need to redesign the old content instead they are hiding support behind DPS and healer jobs.

[Erys]

DPS: high damage output, low suvivability (nealy one- to twoshot by trash and bosses), low utility
Healer: high heal capacity, utility, medium survivability, low damage output

So... my plate and scale armour as a Dragoon is made of Papier-Mâché and healers robe out of Adamantite Thread. Interesting.

[Legion88]

So... my plate and scale armour as a Dragoon is made of Papier-Mâché and healers robe out of Adamantite Thread. Interesting.

Survivability doesn't come from armour with defence and magical resistence alone, there are selfhealing, defCDs, HP pool and useful secondary stats too.

But you are right, in a pure how many hits i can take without heals, everything which is not a tank should lay on the floor after 1-3 hits.
So i should change DPS to "low to medium survivability" and healers to "low survivability".

[Xatsh]

Honestly A self-sufficient system is a major negative in a mmo where group gameplay SHOULD be the focal point of the genre. Without a reason to rely on healers and tanks the game becomes honestly nothing but a giant fate throughout where everyone is doing thier own thing.

With that said XIV is horribly lacking as well as the trinity system is also pure garbage. Simply because the game is missing 2 elements which added alot of dept to the fights and the game as a whole.

Crowd Control (Enfeebling XI terms)
Support (Enhancing XI Terms)

Which were lost with the WoW revolution due to both those classes typically being horrible at being self sufficient. And no MCH and BRD are not support classes in XIV.

XIV needs to encompass the whole group based party system in my opinion, Increase raid size, and get rid of the stupid damage check for everything system.

Because atm the system we have is blah, and honestly GW2s model is probably the worst thing in the whole genre. It work in a single player RPG but not a mmorpg.

And for those saying the dmg would have to be drastic. Look to XI with BRD or Cor. They did next to no damage, but they were taken 100% over an extra DPS. Can also look at Rift. The problem with XIV atm is the game is shallow as hell, adding support and crowd control would help alleviate that problem. Complexity is what the game needs. Making it with no complexity is one of the major design flaws of this game.

[Kurogaea]

Awesome sauce

Some like it this way. All trinity like and stuff (for some odd reason). I'm all in for support roles though, I mean, my dancing gif down there How would the crowd control thing be settled? Also I thought blm and summoner were basically crowd control (well in pvp, not sure about pve) :O