Required Class/Rank failed - Can we have Optimal Rank and Favoured Class back?

[Tiraelina]

Do you realize how old and meaningless what you keep quoting is at this point going forward to 2.0?

[ellohwell]

I'll show it again:



It was already stated things were needlessly complex in terms of calculations, which means making things simpler, would make it easier to balance.

That's not at all hard to understand.

Kind of like you ignored what yoshida stated?

The devs say a lot of things. And yes, they said everything was needlessly complicated.

However, why you think an Optimal Rank System needs to be "overly complicated" is beyond me. It's a huge stretch to go from the devs saying something to then assuming it must be true about everything in the game.

Just using your common sense, it should be pretty apparent that an optimal rank and favoured class system for gear can be simplified to the point of being easy to balance. A restrictive system is merely "the easiest" thing to balance, and you are therefore saying that the dev team are lazy if you think this is all they are competent enough to implement.

And do you honestly believe everything Yoshi states? The developers are often stating specious and dubious claims about certain things, and it pays to be a bit sceptical or cynnical about such statements, especially as it pertains to the Optimal and favoured class system.

I mean, haven't we already explained how simple it can be? It needn't take a Fourier Analysis or Complex Lapacian or whatever to scale down stats according to rank and class. It needn't be that complex.

So I don't know why you (and Yoshi apparently) are arguing that it need be.

It needn't be!

Also, materia just imbalances EVERYTHING anyway, so even if the Optimal rank and Favoured Class system was imbalanced (which it wouldn't be if SE put their skilled mathmeticians to work), then it wouldn't matter compared to the Materia System. Next to the imbalance caused by the materia system, the optimal rank system would look balanced by comparison.

[Jennestia]

And do you honestly believe everything Yoshi states?

As someone with actual experience in this industry, I'd have no reason to not believe him -- I've seen things get overcomplicated for absolutely no reasons at times, be it due to bad programming or bad design decisions, which people like to say SE is the king of. (You yourself said you played XI before, you should know very well how people thought this.)

Nothing to needs to be more complex than it needs to be, that's the problem and that's exactly why it's being simplified. If I had zero knowledge and experience in this industry, I would indeed be very skeptical about a lot what is said, however I know first hand how messy source code can be, which can make anything needlessly complex, when there's a lot of better (and easier ways to handle it) -- However, 9/10 you have to work with what you got, there's no escaping it; Yoshida was given a broken mess of a game and he has to work with it, he even said FFXIV 2.0 will be a 'new game', but it will still be the same game.

Like I said before, even look at the colored system:

Hey everyone! Sorry for the delay in getting this to you all, but I hope that the response from Yoshida on this very hot topic will help to alleviate your concerns going forward. Take a look -

This is Yoshida, the producer/director.

I’m sorry that this post is late and I apologize for writing another long post.

First of all, I would like to apologize for the inconvenience caused by an item’s color affecting its stats in the new recipes. I have read all of your feedback and I would like to speak about the future of colors and their effect on stats.

The fundamental idea behind colors in FFXIV was to create differences in stats for gear. We wanted to separate gear, which was limited in number, into higher and lower tiers. However, we would like to alter this foundation of gear to:

・Color is for individuality
・Shape represents strength

However, we were unable to bring our data up to speed with this new model, which is the reason for our problems now.

Although I informed the team about the new specs earlier, I am the one who gave the go ahead, so I am responsible for the error in planning.
I apologize for my mistake.
(Also, I have come across some posts that suggest that certain developers have been responsible for specific developments, but this is false, and the developers aren’t even correct. Please keep this in mind.)

We would like to adjust the specs based on everybody’s feedback, but please take a look at the following first.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason that I have avoided speaking in detail about colors is because the spec for creating color variations has been performed simply through texture changes. I have mentioned this in a different thread, but I would like to have 24 or 32 colors available for use on any gear item. I would like to accommodate the demands of all players; players who would like to wear all red, players who would like to wear all black, and players who want to have a different color for each piece of gear equipped.

However, if we create all of these colors using texture only, whether on the PS3 version or on a low spec PC, we would face some serious technical problems. Thus, we would like to make adjustments to the item data files themselves.

This is a bit technical, but we will perform color changes by changing the material color and separating the dyed colors from memory. We were able to confirm this with QA recently. Once this has been finished, players will be able to dye their gear in any color. Using the recipe “finished product + dye,” players will be able to freely change color variations as many times as they want.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reasons that we have encountered our current problems are:

・The color variations currently set up for each gear item are not uniform
・The colors have been prepared using textures, so more colors cannot be prepared
・In terms of data, the same items with different colors are treated as different items, so it is difficult to add additional colors
・Eventually, gear stats and color will be re-implemented as unrelated entities (data will be eased through a Color ID system)
・We wanted to allow crafters to create items with different stats by altering similar recipes

Our biggest mistakes were implementing colored items although the colors were not uniform and mixing colors with the concept of allowing crafters to create similar items with different stats. We should have spent more time developing these specs, and I apologize for the mistakes.


There are 2 ways we can fix our mistakes.

1. Add recipes for “Finished product + Dye” and add items for each additional color
⇒This is a temporary solution, but color and stats will be clearly separated
⇒The only problem is that it will take a long time to add all of the items

2. Remove class restrictions for colored gear until the Color ID system is ready
⇒The number of items will not increase greatly, so this could be implemented more quickly
⇒Stats will have to be sacrificed for color choices (this can be balanced by Materia)


We are considering the costs of the above two solutions.

Personally, I prefer the 1st solution, but it would be implemented with patch 1.20 in this best case scenario, so at least until then, the current situation will continue.
(This will also negatively affect our ability to add other content and recipes)
The 2nd solution cannot be implemented in time for patch 1.19a, but it can be implemented soon after.
(We are looking into the cost of this solution as well)

We are sorry that we will continue to inconvenience you, but we will do our best to handle this issue as quickly as possible. Information will be posted as soon as decisions are made.

Please continue to submit your feedback!

Things fundamentally are just more complex than it needs to be and it's what he has to work with. This is why he's just simplifying everything, because it's much easier to balance overall.

[Schubalts]

Do you realize that my post before what you just quoted says that there's still the dated gear out there? Wear that. Stop QQing.

BTW, get with the times. It's level, not rank. ALSO, the gear doesn't tell you how it's affected by using it below the optimal level/favored class. It tells you the difference between what you're wearing now and that piece you want to wear.

Dated gear that will literally vanish from the game after SE finishes their crafting overhauls and lacks materia slots? Wear that dated gear?And the steel armor I'm talking about is not dated, it is new recipe armor. And stop telling people not to complain about unnessecary changes that they do not agree with. That's one of the things that forums are for.

Rank, level, age, it means the same damn thing; get over my word choice there. And not-in-your-inventory gear already tells you the stat difference between it and what you have equipped, so it can be adjusted to show the stat decrease from not being optimal, too. Just like how SE added the decreases to equipped gear descriptions.

SE already added NPCs that explain what Optimal means, anyway, getting rid of that dumb reason for being against the optimal rank/class system.

[Answa]

Dated gear that will literally vanish from the game after SE finishes their crafting overhauls and lacks materia slots? Wear that dated gear?And the steel armor I'm talking about is not dated, it is new recipe armor. And stop telling people not to complain about unnessecary changes that they do not agree with. That's one of the things that forums are for.

Rank, level, age, it means the same damn thing; get over my word choice there. And not-in-your-inventory gear already tells you the stat difference between it and what you have equipped, so it can be adjusted to show the stat decrease from not being optimal, too. Just like how SE added the decreases to equipped gear descriptions.

SE already added NPCs that explain what Optimal means, anyway, getting rid of that dumb reason for being against the optimal rank/class system.

Yes, those. They never said they were going to delete them, just make them pointless.

And yes, I'm done with this subject. It's boring and already someone in my LS bitched to me about how detrimental it is to his RPing. *rolls eyes*

[Sarchy_Warchy]

Why shouldnt you be wearing Lvl 50 gear at Lvl 1? If it scaled appropriately, there would be no reason to wear it at lvl 1, but you would still have the option.

Im allowed to wear the gear on all my R50 classes, so ive earnt the right, and yet as soon as I equip a fry-pan I can't wear my gear anymore? You telling me everytime I cook dinner I have to strip naked? Everytime I pick up a knife, I have to strip naked?

You're crazy.

I agree, also just because "req level" exists as a standard in other MMORPGs does not mean it should be that way in FFXIV. The game does not have enough content to hold us between level 18 gear and level 28 gear.

[Mudd]

Maybe they should keep the required level and class stuff on the higher level gear, and keep things, say 30 and below with optimal? Maybe there's a lot of Optimal gear below 30 that's not dated, I haven't really gone over all of the lower level gear yet, but In any case, while I see the uses of Required, I also see where the OP is coming from in a sense as well. Should totally be able to use a rank 18 weapon as a rank 15.

[Wynn]

Yes, those. They never said they were going to delete them, just make them pointless.

And yes, I'm done with this subject. It's boring and already someone in my LS bitched to me about how detrimental it is to his RPing. *rolls eyes*

They won't be deleting the existing dated gear, but once crafting overhauls are complete those recipes are going away for good so you won't be able to make anymore. Get it now if you want it

[ellohwell]

Yes, those. They never said they were going to delete them, just make them pointless.

And yes, I'm done with this subject. It's boring and already someone in my LS bitched to me about how detrimental it is to his RPing. *rolls eyes*

Girlfriend, you were always done with this subject, before you even began trying to argue your non-existent point. (Emphasis on trying).

[Fensfield]

It's boring and already someone in my LS bitched to me about how detrimental it is to his RPing. *rolls eyes*

Complaining about the clear, negative impact a change had on a type of gameplay they engage in and enjoy? That bastard.

Seriously, people need to get over themselves and stop arbitrarily deciding the opinions of people who roleplay (or engage in any other particular sort of gameplay) are somehow irrelevant by default. Sure, it shouldn't be prioritised to the detriment of the rest of the game, and that's perhaps even more true given the inherent flexibility of roleplaying as an in-game pastime, but that should bloody well work both ways.

It's why an aesthetic mode or favoured gear-model conversions are such good ideas, and I find it amazing that anyone can treat someone who likes one particular aspect of the game as some sort of lesser being and not expect to be seen as a discriminative jerk.

How'd you feel if every time you tried to point out how annoying it is when the server's latent position tracking lets enemies land hits they oughtn't, half the thread dropped snide remarks?

It's boring and already someone in my LS bitched to me about how detrimental it is to his NMing. *rolls eyes*