Required Class/Rank failed - Can we have Optimal Rank and Favoured Class back?

[Jennestia]

You sound like Blizzard making everything out to be way more overcomplicated than it is in reality.

Uh, Yoshida himself said a lot of calculations and algorithms in FFXIV were overly complex. So if anything, you should be saying SE is making out their game to be more complicated than it is, since you know their code better than they do apparently.

Btw:

On the topic of monster attribute changes and possibly player attribute changes, can you go more into detail on this? A lot of players feel everything is still a bit out of whack when it comes to the current attributes like dex barely affecting Accuracy or Shell barely reducing an Imps Blizzard damage.

Our Lead Battle Director, Matsui-san, is currently undergoing--they're basically going to change the equations for how stuff is calculated, all of these attributes. As they balance each of the classes with the new balance system, they're going to go through and check each action. And then see how that needs to be adjusted, and reassign each attribute as they go along.

Since it's going to be such a huge undertaking, it's going to happen in steps--it's not all going to change in the next patch, but over the next few patches we hope to change it. But we want to reassess everything, so it's not like we're going to be looking at one broken thing, we're going to be changing pretty much everything.

One of the reasons that you have some of the things not affecting something at all--like Shell not working on a lot of spells--is because right now a lot of the calculations for that stuff is too complex. Because it's so complex, it's difficult to balance. They want to make it simpler, not just so the players know what's going on--having to have some super program going on in the background to understand the calculations--but also so when the devs do balancing, it's easier for them to balance.

March 2011 Interview

So no, it's not making it out to be "overcomplicated", because in order to properly scale attributes in games it does require an algorithm, which is nothing more than math, versus just setting a set value which no one can argue isn't much easier to balance than having to make sure something is balanced in almost every instance at every level.

The entire system feels like we only have a small fraction of items that should be there.

Aside Materia, this is exactly it. Remember, this is a game going under an overhaul and still pretty much in development.

[Reaujien]

You sound like Blizzard making everything out to be way more overcomplicated than it is in reality.

Blizzard makes complicated products?

[Answa]

It doesn't have to be complicated.

More than three levels below, you receive 0 stat benefit from the item.
3 levels below: 25% stat benefit.
2 levels below: 50% stat benefit.
1 level below: 75% stat benefit.
At level and above: 100% stat benefit.

If an item doesn't favor your class, there's an additional 25% penalty added on top of the above. I can't imagine this would be that hard to implement, and it shouldn't mess up balance. If the itemization is done right, At three levels below you're better off wearing another item, while at one level below the new item is better.

Or, current option, no algorithm and just straight-up play your game.

[Tiraelina]

Uh, Yoshida himself said a lot of calculations and algorithms in FFXIV were overly complex. So if anything, you should be saying SE is making out their game to be more complicated than it is, since you know their code better than they do apparently.

Btw:


March 2011 Interview

So no, it's not making it out to be "overcomplicated", because in order to properly scale attributes in games it does require an algorithm, which is nothing more than math, versus just setting a set value which no one can argue isn't much easier to balance than having to make sure something is balanced in almost every instance at every level.



Aside Materia, this is exactly it. Remember, this is a game going under an overhaul and still pretty much in development.

Optimal already did/does what you are stating would be hard to implement, how hard is that to understand? 1.19 made optimal gear worse than everything 5 levels below you if you are 1 level off.

[Jennestia]

Optimal already did/does what you are stating would be hard to implement, how hard is that to understand? 1.19 made optimal gear worse than everything 5 levels below you if you are 1 level off.

Hard to balance, not implement -- Even yoshida said it would pose a problem in terms of balancing. (Also it created confusion, but it's more regarding the game balance.)

[Schubalts]

Or, current option, no algorithm and just straight-up play your game.

Do you realize that optimal rank/class gear still exists? Do you realize that a similar algorithm is exactly what optimal rank/class gear already did and currently does? The only difference is that the game now tells you how much the attack/defense is lowered.

I can wear optimal rank-39 steel armor right now, but due to the level difference, it would actually be worse than what I have on now. The stat-dropping algorithm is alive and well in the game.

[Tiraelina]

Hard to balance, not implement -- Even yoshida said it would pose a problem in terms of balancing. (Also it created confusion, but it's more regarding the game balance.)

As I've said, you make everything out to be more complicated than it is in reality to reinforce your own arguments. Do you think they just made every item willy nilly or something? They already have your hard to balance to algorithm. Where do you think the stats came from on the current gear?

Do tell where these balance problems are going to crop up from. In a system where below top tier gear actually has some give in it's required level. Mixing optimal and required would have been a better system than the one you can't seem to let go or accept there being better alternatives. What the dev team says isn't law nor are they perfect.

I have to wonder who the troll is in these threads sometimes when you decide to selectively quote a post and ignore everything else.

[Jennestia]

Do you realize that optimal rank/class gear still exists? Do you realize that a similar algorithm is exactly what optimal rank/class gear already did and currently does? The only difference is that the game now tells you how much the attack/defense is lowered.

I can wear optimal rank-39 steel armor right now, but due to the level difference, it would actually be worse than what I have on now. The stat-dropping algorithm is alive and well in the game.

Yep, they're just trying to move us to Materia slotted gear, which can't be done on older gear (which is where the majority of the optimal gear lie) which is why they mentioned balancing, since they'd have to rebalance pretty much everything with the inclusion of Materia which would also have to be balance on optimal gear.

The thing is, it's just much easier to balance a set value and add to it (materia for example) than it is to augment scaling gear, which is why other MMOs haven't really done it in mass and used what works in terms of gear systems, not because they didn't think of doing something new, but because it's actually a lot of hassle to get proper balance on it, even though Unreal and Havok can do it 'out of the box', but for MMOs it's always a finicky beast.

[Jennestia]

As I've said, you make everything out to be more complicated than it is

I'll show it again:

One of the reasons that you have some of the things not affecting something at all--like Shell not working on a lot of spells--is because right now a lot of the calculations for that stuff is too complex. Because it's so complex, it's difficult to balance. They want to make it simpler, not just so the players know what's going on--having to have some super program going on in the background to understand the calculations--but also so when the devs do balancing, it's easier for them to balance.

It was already stated things were needlessly complex in terms of calculations, which means making things simpler, would make it easier to balance.

That's not at all hard to understand.

I have to wonder who the troll is in these threads sometimes when you decide to selectively quote a post and ignore everything else.

Kind of like you ignored what yoshida stated?

[Answa]

Do you realize that optimal rank/class gear still exists? Do you realize that a similar algorithm is exactly what optimal rank/class gear already did and currently does? The only difference is that the game now tells you how much the attack/defense is lowered.

I can wear optimal rank-39 steel armor right now, but due to the level difference, it would actually be worse than what I have on now. The stat-dropping algorithm is alive and well in the game.

Do you realize that my post before what you just quoted says that there's still the dated gear out there? Wear that. Stop QQing.

BTW, get with the times. It's level, not rank. ALSO, the gear doesn't tell you how it's affected by using it below the optimal level/favored class. It tells you the difference between what you're wearing now and that piece you want to wear.