Required Class/Rank failed - Can we have Optimal Rank and Favoured Class back?

[Tsuga]

I can't tell weather your serious or a troll considering:
1. You want fatigue back
2. Your character name and lvl are kind of suspicious
3. This is about the lamest thing to complain about for the game

There are still truck loads of gear you can equip without restrictions... You make it sound like it's torturous to switch classes and put on some clothes. I don't mean to be mean or anything but this is about the most whiniest, stupidest complaint I've ever seen.

People will complain about any and every change, and ignore any logic behind said change simply because they don't like it. It is the nature of this community.

[AamesxDavid]

The bottom line is that restricting gear to class and level was the simplest solution to implement, the most widely understood solution among people who play games in this genre (new or old)

Totally agree. I don't fault SE throwing it in as a quick fix. But if we're in this for the long haul, through major changes that fundamentally alter gameplay, I think we can do better.

the optimal solution for future content and class balance

The balance thing.. again, fine as a quick fix for balance, but just gimp it for inappropriate classes/levels. There's no need to balance the game for people who are equipping things for purely aesthetic reasons.

and a solution that fosters class goals and milestones (example, "I'm rank 30 gld, so now I can wear that super awesome rank 30 gld armor from that instance that I ran!").

How about "Now that I am the appropriate class/level, this gear will finally benefit me!"? I mean, are you equipping for stats or looks? Given your apparent contempt for people who want to equip things for aesthetic reasons, isn't the fact that you're getting good stats from it more important? And if so, what's the difference between my example and yours?

But just like with the action bar, and the hate meter, this is something that most everyone will forget about in two months.

You could very well be right about that, but people becoming complacent with something doesn't make it the best system. And if we still have some combination of required and favored gear (as is my understanding), I think which gear follows which system will seem arbitrary and still be frustrating.

[AamesxDavid]

But I still think that will just open the can of worms for people to argue for the items to have stats even if it doesn't favor their class.

Yeah, there probably would be a good amount of that.. but I think it's hard to say right now. Most of the (real) issues with the optimal system seem to stem from the confusion over whether a piece of gear works better than another - and it's a totally legitimate complaint, because it is confusing, and it does affect gameplay. With that cleared up, I think it'll make any complaints about what isn't favored far less legitimate, and I'll be the one "Like"ing the posts saying "stop complaining".

Anyway, thanks for being one of the few who actually seem to listen.

[Tsuga]

Totally agree. I don't fault SE throwing it in as a quick fix. But if we're in this for the long haul, through major changes that fundamentally alter gameplay, I think we can do better.

I don't disagree with you that there are probably more unique, or interesting solutions. However this game has all ready tried to innovate in so many areas, and failed. What this game needs is to shake of the reputation that it is full of systems that are flawed, and thus make it a broken game. According to the producer, this system was flawed to the point that it would have been too difficult to try to integrate into the future plans for content in this game. According to a majority of the player base it was flawed, as shown when we voted yes to revamping the system. I think that this game needed to return to MMO and RPG roots in some areas for reasons of balance, and accessibility, and this is one of those instances.

Yoshida is quoted as saying that he is not aiming to "reinvent the wheel". He's here to fix this game, and make it marketable. Sometimes that means sacrificing what may have turned into a better idea with more time and manpower.

The balance thing.. again, fine as a quick fix for balance, but just gimp it for inappropriate classes/levels. There's no need to balance the game for people who are equipping things for purely aesthetic reasons.

Sure, that may work. But that would also require more time, and more variables for the devs to deal with. It is clear that it was more of a hassle to deal with than it was worth, and so Yoshida posed the question to us "do you guys even like this system?". Most of us said no.

How about "Now that I am the appropriate class/level, this gear will finally benefit me!"? I mean, are you equipping for stats or looks? Given your apparent contempt for people who want to equip things for aesthetic reasons, isn't the fact that you're getting good stats from it more important? And if so, what's the difference between my example and yours?

I have no problem with anyone equipping gear for looks. I've never said I have a problem with that. What I have a problem with is over-complicating what should be one of the most easy to pick up, streamlined, and balanced systems in the game so that a small group people can play dress up.

Also, having gear at a restricted level fosters milestones in the same way that learning skills at a certain level fosters milestones. Or being able to quest for jobs at a certain level functions as a milestone. Or being able to participate in a certain quest at a certain level functions as a milestone.

It is a carrot to dangle in front of players, and that is a good thing for an MMO because it encourages people to play, and it gives you a reason to continue leveling.

You could very well be right about that, but people becoming complacent with something doesn't make it the best system. And if we still have some combination of required and favored gear (as is my understanding), I think which gear follows which system will seem arbitrary and still be frustrating.

I'm not saying the system is perfect, but I am saying that it is less complicated than favored gear, and so it is more user friendly. I'm saying that it is a system that is easier to balance for future content. I'm saying that it is a step in the right direction to repairing this game, and attracting new players to it.

[AamesxDavid]

According to a majority of the player base it was flawed, as shown when we voted yes to revamping the system. I think that this game needed to return to MMO and RPG roots in some areas for reasons of balance, and accessibility, and this is one of those instances.

And while I understand that returning to the roots may be the easiest way, and fine as a temporary solution, it would still be nice to see innovation there. I think the system had promise, and was held back by execution - as many, many things were at launch. If that means going back to a tried and true system, then fine. I'd just like to keep in mind the aspects of the system that did (or could) work. Not now, not in the next patch, but maybe 2.0?

It is clear that it was more of a hassle to deal with than it was worth, and so Yoshida posed the question to us "do you guys even like this system?". Most of us said no.

It may be unprovable speculation at this point, but at that point, the question might as well have been "would you rather keep this system you don't really understand or have one that you already understand?" I don't blame anyone for saying they didn't like that system, I just don't think the freedom it allowed was the problem.

I have no problem with anyone equipping gear for looks. I've never said I have a problem with that.

In that case, I guess you don't mean it to, but

so that a small group people can play dress up.

sounds pretty contemptuous. I understand not wanting to complicate the system, though - I don't like the current favored system, I just see a few virtues in it that I'd prefer to stay in place.

I'm saying that it is a step in the right direction to repairing this game, and attracting new users to it.

Having an already understood may be a selling point in certain cases, but I think having a unique, easily-understandable system is a better one. I don't think it's good enough to rely on previous systems whenever something new doesn't immediately work out. I know you're not saying that, so I don't mean to imply that you are. I just want to steer clear of generalizations like "this system is bad and that one is good", and instead pick out individual aspects of a system that work or don't work. FFXIV 2.0 has a lot to make up for to a lot of people, and that's going to mean having uniqueness with certain standard systems - the best of both worlds.

[Tsuga]

sounds pretty contemptuous. I understand not wanting to complicate the system, though - I don't like the current favored system, I just see a few virtues in it that I'd prefer to stay in place.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with customizing looks, and wearing what you want. I just don't like the idea that the entire system should revolve around that.

Having an already understood may be a selling point in certain cases, but I think having a unique, easily-understandable system is a better one. I don't think it's good enough to rely on previous systems whenever something new doesn't immediately work out. I know you're not saying that, so I don't mean to imply that you are. I just want to steer clear of generalizations like "this system is bad and that one is good", and instead pick out individual aspects of a system that work or don't work. FFXIV 2.0 has a lot to make up for to a lot of people, and that's going to mean having uniqueness with certain standard systems - the best of both worlds.

Gear accessed being staggered throughout the game is something that most people do not complain about as being "cookie cutter" in RPGs. Every RPG prevents you from accessing, or wearing certain gear until it is balanced for the player to wear it. The one exception I can think of is Dark Souls.

I see your point that a "unique" or "different" idea can be a good selling point. I just do not expect the dev team to reinvent the basics of how an RPG works. I am willing to accept the middle ground that they have given us - that being gear that is wearable by everyone, but is not something you'll want to challenge Ifrit in, and gear that you're locked into, but is what instances, boss fights, classes, jobs, and materia will be balanced around.

[ellohwell]

If you're getting a harsh penalty for wearing something far outside optimal range, and also a slight penalty for wearing something outside of favoured class, then I think that is balanced enough already just by having such penalties. Therefore, I think the dev's excuse that it is for balance reasons is just... well... a lie. If I may be so frank.

A mage can equip a 5-slotted materia piece which is better than every heavy plate armour, so how is letting the mage wear plate armour with a slight penalty imbalanced? Materia is ten times as imbalanced compared to the optimal/favoured system. And I don't see them removing that from the game.

Just because something is a legacy from the launch period, doesn't mean it's bad.

[Reaujien]

I'd rather keep "optimal rank" gear for "vanity-type" gear - you know, things you wouldn't actually use for battle/craft/gathering.

[ellohwell]

I'd rather keep "optimal rank" gear for "vanity-type" gear - you know, things you wouldn't actually use for battle/craft/gathering.

There's no point even scaling "Vanity Gear" because by definition it's useless anyway.

[Enma]

I hope that this confusing situation is only temporary, because of the new and old recipes still live together... Maybe this will be fixed or corrected in 1.20.