Required Class/Rank failed - Can we have Optimal Rank and Favoured Class back?

[Tiraelina]

I've never seen this as a main argument against it -- What I have seen as an argument against it is because it is actually silly being able to wear absolutely anything at anytime, the main people who were absolutely for this system are RPers because they could make their character look how they wanted, stats aside -- On a game level, Yoshida even agreed it would be too hard to balance that and content, especially dropped gear.

Required Level - Easier to balance.

Optimal Level - You need to create an algorithm to scale every single stat accordingly, including make it give "zero" stats, which makes it more complicated than it needs to be, which is also why they did the color change system the way they did for now. Remember, he took over a mess of a game and has to fix it, he even stated the calculations for Protect and Shell for example were needlessly complex.

In order to fix things in game development, it's not a crime to simplify the foundation.

You sound like Blizzard making everything out to be way more overcomplicated than it is in reality. All new gear is already following a scale that has already been established to make it in the first place.

Elohwell is just butthurt he can't wear red cobalt on his level 1 woodworking class.

If you took a moment to stop trolling you would see the problems with lower level gear and the gaps if you want to keep using the same type. There's absolutely nothing to fill in the 10 level gaps without using an entirely different type of gear which is really bad game design.

The entire system feels like we only have a small fraction of items that should be there.

[Dreamer]

It doesn't have to be complicated.

More than three levels below, you receive 0 stat benefit from the item.
3 levels below: 25% stat benefit.
2 levels below: 50% stat benefit.
1 level below: 75% stat benefit.
At level and above: 100% stat benefit.

If an item doesn't favor your class, there's an additional 25% penalty added on top of the above. I can't imagine this would be that hard to implement, and it shouldn't mess up balance. If the itemization is done right, At three levels below you're better off wearing another item, while at one level below the new item is better.

[Answa]

It doesn't have to be complicated.

More than three levels below, you receive 0 stat benefit from the item.
3 levels below: 25% stat benefit.
2 levels below: 50% stat benefit.
1 level below: 75% stat benefit.
At level and above: 100% stat benefit.

If an item doesn't favor your class, there's an additional 25% penalty added on top of the above. I can't imagine this would be that hard to implement, and it shouldn't mess up balance. If the itemization is done right, At three levels below you're better off wearing another item, while at one level below the new item is better.

Or, current option, no algorithm and just straight-up play your game.

[Schubalts]

Or, current option, no algorithm and just straight-up play your game.

Do you realize that optimal rank/class gear still exists? Do you realize that a similar algorithm is exactly what optimal rank/class gear already did and currently does? The only difference is that the game now tells you how much the attack/defense is lowered.

I can wear optimal rank-39 steel armor right now, but due to the level difference, it would actually be worse than what I have on now. The stat-dropping algorithm is alive and well in the game.

[Jennestia]

Do you realize that optimal rank/class gear still exists? Do you realize that a similar algorithm is exactly what optimal rank/class gear already did and currently does? The only difference is that the game now tells you how much the attack/defense is lowered.

I can wear optimal rank-39 steel armor right now, but due to the level difference, it would actually be worse than what I have on now. The stat-dropping algorithm is alive and well in the game.

Yep, they're just trying to move us to Materia slotted gear, which can't be done on older gear (which is where the majority of the optimal gear lie) which is why they mentioned balancing, since they'd have to rebalance pretty much everything with the inclusion of Materia which would also have to be balance on optimal gear.

The thing is, it's just much easier to balance a set value and add to it (materia for example) than it is to augment scaling gear, which is why other MMOs haven't really done it in mass and used what works in terms of gear systems, not because they didn't think of doing something new, but because it's actually a lot of hassle to get proper balance on it, even though Unreal and Havok can do it 'out of the box', but for MMOs it's always a finicky beast.

[Answa]

Do you realize that optimal rank/class gear still exists? Do you realize that a similar algorithm is exactly what optimal rank/class gear already did and currently does? The only difference is that the game now tells you how much the attack/defense is lowered.

I can wear optimal rank-39 steel armor right now, but due to the level difference, it would actually be worse than what I have on now. The stat-dropping algorithm is alive and well in the game.

Do you realize that my post before what you just quoted says that there's still the dated gear out there? Wear that. Stop QQing.

BTW, get with the times. It's level, not rank. ALSO, the gear doesn't tell you how it's affected by using it below the optimal level/favored class. It tells you the difference between what you're wearing now and that piece you want to wear.

[Schubalts]

Do you realize that my post before what you just quoted says that there's still the dated gear out there? Wear that. Stop QQing.

BTW, get with the times. It's level, not rank. ALSO, the gear doesn't tell you how it's affected by using it below the optimal level/favored class. It tells you the difference between what you're wearing now and that piece you want to wear.

Dated gear that will literally vanish from the game after SE finishes their crafting overhauls and lacks materia slots? Wear that dated gear?And the steel armor I'm talking about is not dated, it is new recipe armor. And stop telling people not to complain about unnessecary changes that they do not agree with. That's one of the things that forums are for.

Rank, level, age, it means the same damn thing; get over my word choice there. And not-in-your-inventory gear already tells you the stat difference between it and what you have equipped, so it can be adjusted to show the stat decrease from not being optimal, too. Just like how SE added the decreases to equipped gear descriptions.

SE already added NPCs that explain what Optimal means, anyway, getting rid of that dumb reason for being against the optimal rank/class system.

[Answa]

Dated gear that will literally vanish from the game after SE finishes their crafting overhauls and lacks materia slots? Wear that dated gear?And the steel armor I'm talking about is not dated, it is new recipe armor. And stop telling people not to complain about unnessecary changes that they do not agree with. That's one of the things that forums are for.

Rank, level, age, it means the same damn thing; get over my word choice there. And not-in-your-inventory gear already tells you the stat difference between it and what you have equipped, so it can be adjusted to show the stat decrease from not being optimal, too. Just like how SE added the decreases to equipped gear descriptions.

SE already added NPCs that explain what Optimal means, anyway, getting rid of that dumb reason for being against the optimal rank/class system.

Yes, those. They never said they were going to delete them, just make them pointless.

And yes, I'm done with this subject. It's boring and already someone in my LS bitched to me about how detrimental it is to his RPing. *rolls eyes*

[Jennestia]

You sound like Blizzard making everything out to be way more overcomplicated than it is in reality.

Uh, Yoshida himself said a lot of calculations and algorithms in FFXIV were overly complex. So if anything, you should be saying SE is making out their game to be more complicated than it is, since you know their code better than they do apparently.

Btw:

On the topic of monster attribute changes and possibly player attribute changes, can you go more into detail on this? A lot of players feel everything is still a bit out of whack when it comes to the current attributes like dex barely affecting Accuracy or Shell barely reducing an Imps Blizzard damage.

Our Lead Battle Director, Matsui-san, is currently undergoing--they're basically going to change the equations for how stuff is calculated, all of these attributes. As they balance each of the classes with the new balance system, they're going to go through and check each action. And then see how that needs to be adjusted, and reassign each attribute as they go along.

Since it's going to be such a huge undertaking, it's going to happen in steps--it's not all going to change in the next patch, but over the next few patches we hope to change it. But we want to reassess everything, so it's not like we're going to be looking at one broken thing, we're going to be changing pretty much everything.

One of the reasons that you have some of the things not affecting something at all--like Shell not working on a lot of spells--is because right now a lot of the calculations for that stuff is too complex. Because it's so complex, it's difficult to balance. They want to make it simpler, not just so the players know what's going on--having to have some super program going on in the background to understand the calculations--but also so when the devs do balancing, it's easier for them to balance.

March 2011 Interview

So no, it's not making it out to be "overcomplicated", because in order to properly scale attributes in games it does require an algorithm, which is nothing more than math, versus just setting a set value which no one can argue isn't much easier to balance than having to make sure something is balanced in almost every instance at every level.

The entire system feels like we only have a small fraction of items that should be there.

Aside Materia, this is exactly it. Remember, this is a game going under an overhaul and still pretty much in development.

[Tiraelina]

Uh, Yoshida himself said a lot of calculations and algorithms in FFXIV were overly complex. So if anything, you should be saying SE is making out their game to be more complicated than it is, since you know their code better than they do apparently.

Btw:


March 2011 Interview

So no, it's not making it out to be "overcomplicated", because in order to properly scale attributes in games it does require an algorithm, which is nothing more than math, versus just setting a set value which no one can argue isn't much easier to balance than having to make sure something is balanced in almost every instance at every level.



Aside Materia, this is exactly it. Remember, this is a game going under an overhaul and still pretty much in development.

Optimal already did/does what you are stating would be hard to implement, how hard is that to understand? 1.19 made optimal gear worse than everything 5 levels below you if you are 1 level off.