Required Class/Rank failed - Can we have Optimal Rank and Favoured Class back?

[Tsuga]

Which, as I've said before, isn't a reason for getting rid of the optimal system, but simply making it clearer.

And how would you propose they make it more clear? A tutorial, for picking gear? That should come as naturally as "I kill a monster, I get exp". It should not require a tutorial.

I'll see your heavily-biased examples and raise you a more balanced one:

Belt C: (Favors: Gladiator Suggested level: 30. Str + 5 Dex +3)

Most (all?) gear does not favor a single class, and that is part of what makes the system so unclear. There are also plenty of pieces of gear like my example.

Having restricted classes and levels prevents you from unknowingly gimping yourself. It also makes it easier for the dev team to balance how classes work in a party (it is a multiplayer game after all), materia, and how classes will progress. With tough content like Ifrit being implemented knowing what gear is good for you, and the devs being able to balance that gear are both essential.

Favored gear only benefits those who don't want to upgrade their gear regularly, and who want to look pretty. Sorry but those aren't good enough reasons to complicate a system that is self explanatory in every single other RPG.

[AamesxDavid]

Most (all?) gear does not favor a single class, and that is part of what makes the system so unclear. There are also plenty of pieces of gear like my example.

I'm quite aware of that. Just as I'm sure you're aware that not all required gear has only one required class. And I hope you don't take offense to this, because I mean none, but I read your post as "I don't like how the system works now, so it should be a completely different system."

I never said that there should be no change to the system, simply that the change shouldn't include a required class/level. I'm also not saying that I have all of the answers for how it would best work, just that I think it can, and I have a few ideas on what would make it work better.

Favored gear only benefits those who don't want to upgrade their gear regularly, and who want to look pretty. Sorry but those aren't good enough reasons to complicate a system that is self explanatory in every single other RPG.

Updating gear has nothing to do with it, as you can wear anything below your level with the required system, so that just strikes me as an ad hoc excuse to look down on people for not agreeing with you. And if aesthetics weren't important in the game, all gear would look the same, so I don't agree with your pompous dismissal of it. Having gear similar to my example of Belt 3 doesn't complicate anything, on either end. There are ways it could work without abandoning the system entirely.

Regardless of what you think about the confusion that "optimal gear" causes, the fact that it is easier to balance class locked gear has been stated by Yoshida. Get out of here with your claim that it's got "no upsides".

I guess I should have specified that it has no upsides for the player..?

Edit: I should also make note that class/level locked gear was voted for in the player poles at the beginning of the year, so we're obviously not the only ones that took issue with the "optimal class" gear.

Totally fair point, but I'd simply argue that it was more a matter of wanting a more easily-understandable system than a more restricted one, and-

And this was when we had a) more players, b) a smaller concentration of maxed out players, and c) no endgame.

Is the fact that there were more people who were less experienced with the game at the time supposed to be another point in its favour? Those people didn't understand the system, so they wanted to go to one they already understood - those were the options. How about a simplified optimal system? Or at least a more transparent one?

Again, a required system isn't horrible, just unnecessary, and unfortunate for those of us who enjoy the freedom an optimal system provides.

[Tsuga]

I'm quite aware of that. Just as I'm sure you're aware that not all required gear has only one required class. And I hope you don't take offense to this, because I mean none, but I read your post as "I don't like how the system works now, so it should be a completely different system."

I never said that there should be no change to the system, simply that the change shouldn't include a required class/level. I'm also not saying that I have all of the answers for how it would best work, just that I think it can, and I have a few ideas on what would make it work better.

You don't really have any answers for how the system benefits the game, or the players outside of aesthetics, and the fact that you liked the old system. I admit, I liked the old system at first too, not having to carry a dozen gear sets around made sense. However the more I leveled, the more I realized that I was gimped by not carrying as much gear. I also realized that it was confusing trying to figure out what gear is best for me without referring to websites outside of the game (ZAM and YG namely). No player should be forced to look outside of the game when he's simply updating his gear. Like I've said several times, optimal gear should be self explanatory, and there is nothing more obvious than telling people what class and level their gear is for. The whole locking aspect is for balance, as I've said before.

Also, it's not that I don't like the system, I don't like that the "favor" system is misleading, and confusing - especially for newer players (y'know, the people they're trying to attract to, and keep in the game). Just because you're used to it does not make it user friendly.

Updating gear has nothing to do with it, as you can wear anything below your level with the required system, so that just strikes me as an ad hoc excuse to look down on people for not agreeing with you. And if aesthetics weren't important in the game, all gear would look the same, so I don't agree with your pompous dismissal of it. Having gear similar to my example of Belt 3 doesn't complicate anything, on either end. There are ways it could work without abandoning the system entirely.

Updating gear refers to downgrading to lower level gear when you are switching classes as well. Regardless, the only upsides to the system are what I stated, and it is still not a good enough reason to keep it.

Edit:

snip.

This falls under the category of "I don't want to switch gear", so you're just proving my point.

Also, when you're using high level gear on a low level character it's usually gimped to the point that it's worse than gear at your level. And by the logic of that "upside" the game should just have high level gear, and skip low level gear entirely, which does not foster a healthy crafting community or economy. Low level crafters would (and could) never sell their gear. The focus should be on balancing low to mid level gear so that it is better than any high level gear for low to mid level classes. This makes it easier for the devs to balance dungeons, instances, leves, materia, and any other content throughout the entire game.

Edit - I also love that you guys are completely avoiding the fact that Yoshi P stated that class/level locked gear benefits the game as a whole in regard to content and class balancing. Further proof that your entire argument is based on "I was used to it, I liked it, I want to look pretty, and I don't want to have to switch gear". Stop being so damn selfish.

[AamesxDavid]

You don't really have any answers for how the system benefits the game, or the players outside of aesthetics, and the fact that you liked the old system.

I don't think that players should have to justify to you, or anyone, why they want to equip a piece of gear, regardless of their level/class. And the only reason you've given for why you disagree is:

The whole locking aspect is for balance, as I've said before.

which isn't a benefit for the player.

Just because you're used to it does not make it user friendly.

What's with thinking just because I'm against a required level/class, that means I think the system is great as-is? I don't. I think it could be greatly simplified - for instance, to only favor a single class, or type of class (DoW, DoM, etc.). I'm saying that we could change the system and make it clearer in a way that still doesn't restrict players from equipping whatever they want. So you either disagree that that's possible, or you still wouldn't be in favor of that system.

[mysterytaru]

which isn't a benefit for the player.

Balance isn't of benefit to the player? Do you seriously believe this? Wow. Just...wow.

[AamesxDavid]

Balance isn't of benefit to the player? Do you seriously believe this? Wow. Just...wow.

Knowing the context of the argument is a benefit for the poster.

The argument was that it was easier to balance, not that an optimal system was imbalanced by nature. Do you seriously believe that it is impossible to balance a system in which gear is gimped instead of restricted when you are not the "required" class/level?

[AdvancedWind]

Edit:

Also, when you're using high level gear on a low level character it's usually gimped to the point that it's worse than gear at your level.

Get this on your thick head: We are - NOT - talking about using gear with god knows how many levels difference and it still being useful; we are talking about being able to use gear with 3-5 level dif and it properly punishing the player without being completely useless, thus allowing quick class changing without the need for multiple gear sets and macros just because you might want to mine a single node and two and go back to killing things. This was the whole mentality behind the optmal level system, NOT using level 50 gear on you R25 character while you raid Toto-Rak.

Edit - I also love that you guys are completely avoiding the fact that Yoshi P stated that class/level locked gear benefits the game as a whole in regard to content and class balancing.

Yoshi-P saying it doesn't mean some people might not completely agree with him and can't provide a few arguments against it, even tho we all know this won't change. This is what we're all doing here, by the way.

Further proof that your entire argument is based on "I was used to it, I liked it, I want to look pretty, and I don't want to have to switch gear". Stop being so damn selfish.

Wait. You're the ones saying people shouldn't be using gear a few levels above them just because people are too dumb to properly gear themsellfs (false), that everyone will just buy level 50 gear (false), and, let's be honest here, because that just happens to be the system you're more confortable with, and 'we' are the selfish ones?

[Tsuga]

Get this on your thick head: We are - NOT - talking about using gear with god knows how many levels difference and it still being useful; we are talking about being able to use gear with 3-5 level dif and it properly punishing the player without being completely useless, thus allowing quick class changing without the need for multiple gear sets and macros just because you might want to mine a single node and two and go back to killing things. This was the whole mentality behind the optmal level system, NOT using level 50 gear on you R25 character while you raid Toto-Rak.

Optimal Level gear will still be in the game if that is what you're arguing for.

Yoshi-P saying it doesn't mean some people might not completely agree with him and can't provide a few arguments against it, even tho we all know this won't change. This is what we're all doing here, by the way.

No, the OP is claiming that the current system doesn't work, when it works best according to the devs, and the majority of the player base.

Wait. You're the ones saying people shouldn't be using gear a few levels above them just because people are too dumb to properly gear themsellfs (false), that everyone will just buy level 50 gear (false), and, let's be honest here, because that just happens to be the system you're more confortable with, and 'we' are the selfish ones?

All of my points come from experience. I see people wearing gear that is not "optimal" for them on a daily basis. Also I am arguing for the current system because it is a system that works and is more user friendly for most of the community that is in the game, as well as potential subscribers. I am also arguing for the current system because it helps with instance, boss, materia, and job/class/level balance. All of which influence a more healthy game than your "I don't want to have to carry multiple sets of gear on me" argument. You have 200 friggin' item slots. I carry gear for 4 different classes at a time, and still have room to spare (and I did so before the inventory boost). Your other arguments were stronger than that.

[ellohwell]

All of my points come from experience. I see people wearing gear that is not "optimal" for them on a daily basis. Also I am arguing for the current system because it is a system that works and is more user friendly for most of the community that is in the game, as well as potential subscribers. I am also arguing for the current system because it helps with instance, boss, materia, and job/class/level balance. All of which influence a more healthy game than your "I don't want to have to carry multiple sets of gear on me" argument. You have 200 friggin' item slots. I carry gear for 4 different classes at a time, and still have room to spare (and I did so before the inventory boost). Your other arguments were stronger than that.

How is it "more user friendly"?

It's not user friendly at all. You're thinking of the Optimal Rank system which tried to accommodate freedom of playstyle but still managed to suggest "the ideal way of playing".

How many mages did you ever actually see in full plate?

Personally, I'd admire the spectacle, but quite frankly didn't see it happen too often. Namely because most mages realised that gear severely gimped them.

Anyways, I have always had over 5 gear sets in my inventory. It's not a problem for me carrying around so much gear. What's annoying is that I can not casually wear what I want when I want, despite having earnt the right to wear it, and also having earnt the gil to buy it. There is a huge heavy-handedness guiding my every move in this game now, even when all I want to do is:

• Not be naked every time i attach materia for someone
• Not have to reaffix an entire wardrobe just to do a few low rank crafts every now and then
• Have the freedom to customise gear sets in line with the Armory System
• Have options for wardrobe
• Be able to buy stuff on wards a few ranks above me and "grow into it" instead of using my R1 item until lvl 18

[Tsuga]

How is it "more user friendly"?

It's not user friendly at all. You're thinking of the Optimal Rank system which tried to accommodate freedom of playstyle but still managed to suggest "the ideal way of playing".

It is user friendly to people who want to know at a glance what gear is right for them at their current level. It's the difference between telling users "this is a level 30 gladiator belt" instead of "This is a level 30 Gladiator, Pugilist, and DoM belt". Naturally, as a gladiator, I'll want to know what gear is best for my class. This is the most streamlined way to show that. It also gives that gladiator a benchmark to work up to. "If I just get 3 more levels I can finally equip that sweet level 30 belt!"

Knowing what gear you should be wearing should not require a tutorial, like the old system did.

Anyways, I have always had over 5 gear sets in my inventory. It's not a problem for me carrying around so much gear. What's annoying is that I can not casually wear what I want when I want, despite having earnt the right to wear it, and also having earnt the gil to buy it. There is a huge heavy-handedness guiding my every move in this game now, even when all I want to do is:

• Not be naked every time i attach materia for someone
• Not have to reaffix an entire wardrobe just to do a few low rank crafts every now and then
• Have the freedom to customise gear sets in line with the Armory System
• Have options for wardrobe
• Be able to buy stuff on wards a few ranks above me and "grow into it" instead of using my R1 item until lvl 18

So buy a set of gear that you can wear on any class? The old gear is still in the game. Sorry, but that's not a very convincing argument for why this system doesn't work for the game. It's only convincing me that you want to look pretty.