Required Class/Rank failed - Can we have Optimal Rank and Favoured Class back?

[AamesxDavid]

Group 1: You have a group who likes having defined gear for classes

Still happens with the optimal system...

with restrictions based on class or level.

And the purpose of that restriction?

It makes sense to them and they have no problem purchasing or crafting the appropriate gear for the current level of whatever class they are playing.

Good for them, they can still purchase class-specific gear using the optimal system. You see, the optimal system still heavily favours Group 1 while not restricting Group 2. The required system restricts Group 2 while providing no real benefit to Group 1, other than the fact that everyone will be forced to play the way they prefer to play themselves.

Group 2: You have another group who wants to purchase one set of gear and use it for all of their classes ad-infinium, until they can replace it with r50 gear for the appropriate class. They seem ignorant to the fact that now, stats DO matter.

Ohh, so Group 2 is just lazy and stupid? Here I thought we could have a real discussion. The problem is that even with the optimal system, your ignorant, fictitious Group 2 would still have lowered stats, hindering their performance/progress.. so what do you care if they're ignorant? You just proved my breakdown of the groups - you don't care about how much "sense" the system makes, you just want to herd all of the morons into the "proper" way of playing the game. It doesn't make them any less ignorant, it just hides their ignorance. And what's good about that?

[Mishakai]

Still happens with the optimal system...



And the purpose of that restriction?



Good for them, they can still purchase class-specific gear using the optimal system. You see, the optimal system still heavily favours Group 1 while not restricting Group 2. The required system restricts Group 2 while providing no real benefit to Group 1, other than the fact that everyone will be forced to play the way they prefer to play themselves.



Ohh, so Group 2 is just lazy and stupid? Here I thought we could have a real discussion. The problem is that even with the optimal system, your ignorant, fictitious Group 2 would still have lowered stats, hindering their performance/progress.. so what do you care if they're ignorant? You just proved my breakdown of the groups - you don't care about how much "sense" the system makes, you just want to herd all of the morons into the "proper" way of playing the game. It doesn't make them any less ignorant, it just hides their ignorance. And what's good about that?

How can we have a real discussion when your Group 2 were nothing but whiners who don't approve of other peoples gear??

You make a childish statement, and they try to flip the tables when I point it out to you in a painfully obvious way. Get over yourself, there is no way you can have real discussion with your bait and switch tactics. Good day sir, and grow up.

[AamesxDavid]

How can we have a real discussion when your Group 2 were nothing but whiners who don't approve of other peoples gear??

I was being honest, and stated that I was open to correction. Your response was evidently a purposely exaggerated example in the other direction. I'm sorry if I can't see how I'm the childish one in this exchange.

I stated that I was simply in favour of the freedom that the optimal system provides - a far cry from your ignorant Group 2.

Yet my Group 2 was against the optimal system for no other reason than the disapproval of people wearing inappropriate gear, and instead of provide a counter to that, you provided a strawman - intentionally, it seems. You obviously thought my group organization was a strawman, yet you gave no reason why.

I'm honestly still open for discussion on that, though I doubt you'll believe that.

[Aleczan]

And the purpose of that restriction?

So that not everyone looks identical?

This is just me and my fashion preference, but I find it so wrong to have universal equipment which do not restrict anything at all, albeit level or class. I like how my Miner & Fisher, Culinarian & Carpenter, Pugilist, Conjurer, and Lancer all look different and distinguished from each other. I also like how I see other person and be able to guess their class or class type at first glance. Without gear restriction, it would be so monotonous and boring. It's just natural that different classes has different array of available armors. It's against my common sense and fashion sense to think that an Archer or Pugilist should be able to wear heavy armor or plated armor just like Marauder or Gladiator. So I don't see anything wrong with having restriction.

Also, I am not saying that having optimal level system was bad. It's just that it is not that bad to change over. You can't tailor the game to fit everyone's preference and/or convenience. But currently I (and many people) see that there's already a game mechanism that's helping you deal with the "inconvenience" in the game (in this case, Macro, my greatest helper ever since before they implemented Action Bar saving for each class,) so the point most people (or at least the OP) are complaining about (stripping naked when change class) is just a trivial problem and can be easily worked out with some effort.

[AamesxDavid]

So that not everyone looks identical?

I wish I could say that I understand this fear.. but I don't. Since when does a lack of restriction on gear mean everyone will wear the same thing always, regardless of class or level? If these people care about stats (which most people do), they'll wear the optimal gear anyhow.

I find it so wrong to have universal equipment which do not restrict anything at all

Same thing here - it's not actually universal because it's for specific classes. It simply doesn't require them.

I like how my Miner & Fisher, Culinarian & Carpenter, Pugilist, Conjurer, and Lancer all look different and distinguished from each other.

Right, they do even with the optimal system if you're wearing the proper gear. Anyway, you get the idea.

It's just that it is not that bad to change over.

And I'm not saying this is game-breaking or anything like that, just that it's an unnecessary change that does have downsides. And, most importantly, no real upsides, because all of the concerns I've heard about the optimal system either aren't true, aren't legitimate, or can be taken care of without abandoning the whole system for a required one.

[mysterytaru]

And I'm not saying this is game-breaking or anything like that, just that it's an unnecessary change that does have downsides. And, most importantly, no real upsides, because all of the concerns I've heard about the optimal system either aren't true, aren't legitimate, or can be taken care of without abandoning the whole system for a required one.

Name one that's not true? It does reduce class uniqueness. It does increase the number of players who can't even grasp basic gear principles. As far as 'aren't legitimate' goes, newsflash: Just because *you* don't have a concern, that doesn't make it less legitimate.

[Tsuga]

And I'm not saying this is game-breaking or anything like that, just that it's an unnecessary change that does have downsides. And, most importantly, no real upsides, because all of the concerns I've heard about the optimal system either aren't true, aren't legitimate, or can be taken care of without abandoning the whole system for a required one.

Which, as I've said before, isn't a reason for getting rid of the optimal system, but simply making it clearer.

And how would you propose they make it more clear? A tutorial, for picking gear? That should come as naturally as "I kill a monster, I get exp". It should not require a tutorial.

I'll see your heavily-biased examples and raise you a more balanced one:

Belt C: (Favors: Gladiator Suggested level: 30. Str + 5 Dex +3)

Most (all?) gear does not favor a single class, and that is part of what makes the system so unclear. There are also plenty of pieces of gear like my example.

Having restricted classes and levels prevents you from unknowingly gimping yourself. It also makes it easier for the dev team to balance how classes work in a party (it is a multiplayer game after all), materia, and how classes will progress. With tough content like Ifrit being implemented knowing what gear is good for you, and the devs being able to balance that gear are both essential.

Favored gear only benefits those who don't want to upgrade their gear regularly, and who want to look pretty. Sorry but those aren't good enough reasons to complicate a system that is self explanatory in every single other RPG.

Regardless of what you think about the confusion that "optimal gear" causes, the fact that it is easier to balance class locked gear has been stated by Yoshida. Get out of here with your claim that it's got "no upsides".

Name an upside to "favored gear" aside from "I don't want to switch gear/buy new gear every 5 levels" and "I want to look purdy".

Edit: I should also make note that class/level locked gear was voted for in the player poles at the beginning of the year, so we're obviously not the only ones that took issue with the "optimal class" gear. And this was when we had a) more players, b) a smaller concentration of maxed out players, and c) no endgame.

[Aleczan]

I wish I could say that I understand this fear.. but I don't.

It's not my fear. You asked why the restriction, I was giving you my opinion about the possible answer, as to why the devs put the restrictions out there: to create variety.


Also, amen to Tsuga's reply. Yeah the uniqueness is the word I wanted.

[ellohwell]

So that not everyone looks identical?

This is just me and my fashion preference, but I find it so wrong to have universal equipment which do not restrict anything at all, albeit level or class. I like how my Miner & Fisher, Culinarian & Carpenter, Pugilist, Conjurer, and Lancer all look different and distinguished from each other. I also like how I see other person and be able to guess their class or class type at first glance. Without gear restriction, it would be so monotonous and boring. It's just natural that different classes has different array of available armors. It's against my common sense and fashion sense to think that an Archer or Pugilist should be able to wear heavy armor or plated armor just like Marauder or Gladiator. So I don't see anything wrong with having restriction.

Also, I am not saying that having optimal level system was bad. It's just that it is not that bad to change over. You can't tailor the game to fit everyone's preference and/or convenience. But currently I (and many people) see that there's already a game mechanism that's helping you deal with the "inconvenience" in the game (in this case, Macro, my greatest helper ever since before they implemented Action Bar saving for each class,) so the point most people (or at least the OP) are complaining about (stripping naked when change class) is just a trivial problem and can be easily worked out with some effort.

Restriction is what makes everyone look the same.

Do you honestly not realise that?

[Jennestia]

Restriction is what makes everyone look the same.

Do you honestly not realise that?

Being able to wear anything and everything you want unrestricted isn't any better. Restrictions doesn't cause everyone to look the same, gear with the best stats does no matter the system.