When are we going to infiltrate the Garlean Empire?!

[Apyllos]

I see those crafty garleans and their border in the Shroud.... When are we going to start infiltrating the garlean empire? Don't they have large portions of the world occupied?

[myahele]

I guess once we deal the Nidhogg and his brood we can slowly worm are way into the many castrums in Eorzea.

With the knowledge that Yda and Papalymo are working with the Ala Mhigan resistance, I'd imagine we'd get more involved with Ala Mhigo-Garlean stuff soon.

[Rocl]

It's still weird to me we only really enter Castrum Meridanium as a dungeon and sort of loading screen past Castrum Occidens.

Makes me wonder if Operation Archon was originally supposed to be a little more in depth instead of just 2 dungeons and a trial.

[Theodric]

I'd rather we didn't - because Garlemald and its people deserve more than to be treated like fodder to be slaughtered. They're actually people with hopes, dreams and loved ones - which should realistically make it a big deal whenever the WoL confronts them because their only 'crime' is to be fighting on a different side for a cause that does not align with the WoL's twisted mentality and hypocritical self righteousness.

The obsession with Ala Mhigo is becoming rather tiresome to me as well. The Ala Mhigans are a violent, selfish people who sought to occupy Eorzea themselves before they were given a taste of their own medicine at the hands of Garlemald. If we do go to Ala Mhigo I would find it much more interesting if we have to put down a considerable amount of Ala Mhigans who seek to inflict all manner of atrocities upon innocent and 'guilty' Garleans alike as is common in their quest for vengeance. How many awful things have been done so far in the name of Ala Mhigo? Quite a few, given Ilberd's antics and the existence of The Corpse Brigade.

Any attempt to infiltrate Ala Mhigo at this time will result in displacing/killing numerous Garlean civilians. If that happens then I hope the story doesn't shy away from painting the Scions and WoL in a bad light. Killing off a few major characters along the way would be help immensely if they go down that route.

Ideally, though, I want to align with Garlemald itself. Or at least those who are loyal to their homeland and people but do not necessarily want to occupy Eorzea. The Final Fantasy series as a long history of having antagonists be morally complex and even completely justified in their actions. I see no reason why Garlemald can't be like Archades in FFXII.

[Belhi]

Theodric, you realize the way you are describing Ala Mhigo, apart from being off in a few places, is exactly what you are saying you don't want them to do with Garlemald. It really sounds like you want the Garleans to be the protagonists and want to paint those with issues with them in a bad light to make them look better.

A few points.

The Ala Mhigans last actually tried to invade another Eorzean state 100 years ago. They haven't been aggressive to the other nations since they were beaten back. Infact there is probably very few people still alive that were alive when the Autumn war took place.

Secondly, Ala Mhigans have been painted as a flawed people but no worse than any of the other nationalities. You point out Ilberd and the Corpse Brigade (a group of former royal guard to a insane king who have turned bandit and the other Ala Mhigans either hate or see with contempt) and ignore the likes of Minfilia, Raubahn, probably Yda, Wilred and many more.

Thirdly, Ala Mhigo is an occupied country and has been for only about 15 years. More over the treatement of the Ala Mhigians in that time has been appaling. Lets be clear. The took youth from their parents and brainwashed them with Garlean propaganda, then had them kill their former loved ones. They forced conscription on the populous. They had women taken and used as 'entertainment' for their soldiers to the point where we know women who escaped this fate committed suicide rather than be recaptured.

Fourth, Ala Mhigo probably doesn't have many Garlean citizens since people of the occupied territories don't have the rights of a citizen. They are the very lowest caste of Garlean society.

Fifth, and this is a big one, the main difference between Garlemald and anyone else we are dealing with is Garlemald is trying to invade and subjugate everyone else. That makes Garlemald a bad. Considering the crap we put up with from the city states we would probably be more willing to work with Garlemald if they weren't busy trying to enslave the rest of the world.

Now as I said before, I think Garlemald probably has element we can work with but Garlemald as it exists now is going to need to see some changes for us to be able to work with them. I also doubt we will be killing many innocent Garleans and I would be surprised in the least if we at some stage in a liberation of Ala Mhigo have to actually protect Garlean innocents from hate filled Ala Mhigans. We certainly have had to kill off some Ishgardians in HW.

I think we will work with them eventually but its not going to happen over night or be a case of 'oh they weren't so bad after all'. I think we might run into more moderate groups in an Ala Mhigo expansion as the focus will be much more on Garlemald and it would be a fantastic time to set the groundwork for more in depth Garlemald development but if anything happens to them I suspect it will be much more likely Garlean hardliners either neutralising them for being soft or effectively removing their power leaving them unable to aid us.

[Jeannes]

I say we slaughter the garleans.

[myahele]

Eorzea (as well as the other continents) were all just minding their own business until the Garleans decided that they wanted to expand.

Primals were never a thing in the 6th Astral Era until the Garleans started taking over territories and massacring beast tribes; they massacred them prior to the Asciens teaching them primal summoning.

Lets not forget that Project Meteor was funded and supported by the Emperor himself. The project itself to re-discover the ancient magic Meteor.

If we're going to throw nations under the bus based on their past actions, then I say the same regarding the Garleans; whose Emperor had his own family members assassinated for reasons ... is this an action of an "enlightened" nation.

[Theodric]

Well, we saw Ishgardians committing all sorts of atrocities in the name of their holy war against Nidhogg's brood. They murdered countless innocents in their misguided crusade and to ensure that the truth of the war did not come out. We're still seeing the consequences of all that and things may become even more morally dubious in the upcoming patches. Despite that they're quite clearly not rotten across the board, which can only apply to Garlemald as well if the developers intend them to be anything other than stereotypical bad guys which I firmly believe they aren't.


After all, Gaius had some pretty good points and not everybody in Garlemald supported the attempt to bring down Dalamud upon Eorzea. If influential Garleans think that then it stands to reason that many regular Garleans do too. As for conscription? Eorzea, too, does the same thing. Not to the same extent, perhaps, but Ul'dah and Ishgard are notorious for treating the downtrodden and poor terribly and quite a lot of Eorzeans are exceptionally racist.

Eorzea (as well as the other continents) were all just minding their own business until the Garleans decided that they wanted to expand.

Actually, we don't know that - and Eorzea, at least, wasn't minding it's own business given that Ala Mhigo sought to conquer the rest of Eorzea. Go back in the past and there's other conflicts too some of which I think are fairly recent. I vaguely recall tension and war between Hyur and Elezen, for example. Though that has seemingly dissolved since that point.

When it comes to Garlemald we've only seen and heard one side of the conflict. If the developers follow their current trend then we learn the full story it'll paint both sides in a morally grey rather than morally pure light - and I feel like that would be far more interesting and a better compromise over all.

[Lauront]

Ul'dah and Ishgard are notorious for treating the downtrodden and poor terribly

They should know their place.

Also, I would add that you could see during the fight with Ultima Weapon that Gaius's aim was not wanton destruction (unlike our Paragon friend.)

I don't know why Ala Mhigo gets a free pass in these matters. It warred with other Eorzean nations and tried to conquer them, for reasons far less sensible than the Garleans possess no doubt, and now it has had a bitter taste of its own medicine. Personally, I just find most of it obnoxious.

[Alisa180]

After all, Gaius had some pretty good points and not everybody in Garlemald supported the attempt to bring down Dalamud upon Eorzea. If influential Garleans think that then it stands to reason that many regular Garleans do too.

About that:

Alphinaud
The Garlean Empire believes that primals are an insufferable menace─that their mere existence is a threat to this very star. As such, they deem any action taken against the beast tribes to be justified by default.
Imagine then...if it became known that it was not only the beast tribes of Eorzea that could summon primals, but her civilized peoples as well, any lingering objections to the Eorzean campaign would vanish overnight.
Where before we had to contend with a single imperial legion, we could well find ourselves facing the combined might of all Garlemald...

Thanks to Ysayle, its very easy to infer that any 'reasonable' Garleans are about to go extinct.

I don't know why Ala Mhigo gets a free pass in these matters. It warred with other Eorzean nations and tried to conquer them, for reasons far less sensible than the Garleans possess no doubt, and now it has had a bitter taste of its own medicine. Personally, I just find most of it obnoxious.

Think of it less from the perspective of what the Ala Mhigans 'deserve' (which is a whole 'nother debate) and more from a pragmatic/strategic perspective. Its pretty clear that we can expect a ramp-up of Garlean aggression in the near future, probably even before 4.0. If so, we *cannot* afford to continue to allow a launching pad for their invasion in the form of Ala Mhigo. Liberating the city is as much a matter of deterring a full-blown invasion, as it is a matter of 'justice.'

Given all the dislike towards the Ala Mhigans, I think it would be funny if there was an undertone of 'We don't like you guys, but unfortunately we have to take back your city to keep Garlemald from killing us all.'