Astrologian impossible to balance as it is

[Galdous]

I am implying that someone states I cannot use a video as evidence because it is a silly BS argument as he puts it. I was discussing dynamics that I felt SE was originally wanting healers to assist in DPS then taking away accuracy gear led me to believe they wanted healers to focus more so on healing. If scholars have room to dps for a more larger portion of time then heal then perhaps mechanics that would almost require pre shielding or an upkeep of shielding to force the scholar to focus more on support healing and utility over dps might be a mechanic explored.

Regardless of how you feel that the video I used as an example was extreme and only accomplished by 1 group is not even relevant to the conversation. You are just adding fluff to a very simplistic statement I add by defining new directives that is not even logical to the core of the argument. Whether or not 1 group can do it or 50% of all raid groups can. It was done regardless. And I said that I do not agree that a healer should focus only on healing or dps. I am not a healer nor do I have a opinion on that matter. It is solely in the context of someone saying I cannot use a video as that example and my feeling that it is relevent. Explain why it is not relevant to my statement without adding irrelevant context like item level or how few amount of people can do it because that is after the fact and not relevant.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Whether or not 1 group can do it or 50% of all raid groups can. It was done regardless. And I said that I do not agree that a healer should focus only on healing or dps. I am not a healer nor do I have a opinion on that matter

If you had no opinion, why is this discussion a thing in the first place?

As for your video, have you realised how terrible the presentation is? I'll recap ONCE AGAIN how it all started before this little ego trip broke loose:

I'm hoping Alex midas gives healers less time to dps.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Have you healed A3S or A4S? Do you actually know what you're asking for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iALJrcwI58s

If the encounter can be solo healed then I believe that was the point being made. Feels like having two healers in the raid scenario is a waste of the healers strength if they are pushing the scholar to dps primarily.

There is so much information missing and that solo heal feat is nowhere near normal or even abnormal. As a result, you presented yourself as that autism lady from the if-google-was-a-guy joke. There was no way anyone would have taken your post seriously or considered you as a gullible fool AND the point you were originally trying to make seems to be pretty clear there. Aside from the terrible presentation, your arguments spread over several posts are so full of holes.

I was merely stating that if the scholar is able to divulge time to dpsing for 80% of an encounter for half of the hardest raids then the strength of the healers was in question.

Yet you know nothing of the encounters or the healing jobs. How would you know?

And if I was to actually go find the astrologian that solo healed that to somehow support my side of the discussion would that magically make me right in your books? No I have not healed As3/As4. I never said that the healing was not hectic in 3/4 nor did I disagree with you Lego because I said I agree with you which you seem to leave out. What I said was the video exsist that shows it was accomplished after you stated do you know how hard it is to heal As3/4?

If you want to quote me then quote this next sentence. I agree that healing requirements in As3/As4 is heavily required.

Yet you posted a video that would agree with Vlady who wants stricter HPS checks. Which would imply that the healing game's easier than you're trying to imply now. If not and you didn't agree with Vlady that the HPS checks needs to be tighter, why even share that video? Just to get your ego stomped by a lalafell?

It is my opinion and I have already shown it only takes one healer to beat As3/As4. And on the side of whether or not the healer overgeared the fight is pointless when you can gear up outside of the raid off Esoteric gear and Void ark alone. If you had only the ability to hit 210 gear from As1-4 alone then that would be valid. But you could stay outside of As the entire experience then go in after you hit 205+ item level.

Warriors and Scholars have beaten Titan EX alone. Does this mean Titan EX should be solo content regardless of level, gear, and job with this kind of argument?

[CookieMonsta]

Yes but I was presented with a video of 1 healer handling the entire fight. I actually agree with your sentiments considering almost every raid so far at one point has had a white mage or astrologian solo healing after it has achieved farm status. My point is people calling BS on me since it was a feat done by very few people but yet others can pull people who beat As3-As4 for examples when barely more then a few % of the player base has ever beaten those raids. It is a bit hypocritical to try to nullify my statement while also speaking of content only a few % of people have actually seen as well.

But my point does stand. As3 was done by one healer so I feel my original point still stands.

A3S was also solo tanked by a PLD
There is a difference between a practical Raid Clear and a Trick Clear. Its the same logic behind the people going for FFLOGS top rankings.

[Ghishlain]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iALJrcwI58s

If the encounter can be solo healed then I believe that was the point being made. Feels like having two healers in the raid scenario is a waste of the healers strength if they are pushing the scholar to dps primarily.

YouTube video is an AST solo healing A3S.

First sentence states that someone solo healing A3S is evidence that the game needs higher healing requirements AKA "point being made".

Second sentence implies that SCH is unnecessary because of the first sentence and that SCH is primarily focussed on DPS.

Faulty logic: using a video that indicates something that is not meta defining as evidence that the healing meta is can be solo healed by every individual raider and thus healing requirements should be raised.

Gladous, you're entitled to your opinion but I would highly recommend refraining from using such a niche composition for this raid tier as evidence to support that.

[Galdous]

Logic eh? You are the one defining the parameters for which you are basing the argument but yet as long as we go by your parameters it is logical but yet anyone else has an opinion it cannot fit your meta. If you are realistically trying to debate someone on a logical level you cannot just say your point of view is right because my criteria is different. This is not a discussion of average or means. It is a video that shows something was done while the raid tier was relevant. And once more if you go by your logic then even using As3/As4 as any example is convoluted because only 1-2% of the entire gaming community has ever even seen those raids.

Plus if you look at my other posts before we even got to this point I explained that I agreed it was an extreme case and not worth drawing conclusions from. You are pulling from two different paragraphs now comparing apples to oranges. That original post was to point out that it could have been healed followed by if we are going by the logic of the post before me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iALJrcwI58s

If the encounter can be solo healed then I believe that was the point being made. Feels like having two healers in the raid scenario is a waste of the healers strength if they are pushing the scholar to dps primarily.

That was what I was originally talking about. Not that the fight itself but of the scholar's role being almost more dps defining then that of support healing. Once more you are comparing apples to oranges if you are talking about the original post then you need to look at whom I was replying to before you jump to conclusions. Considering there is not even a scholar in that video I would assume that it would have been understood as such.

@Gladous

I think most people understand the point of the original argument was that you and Vlady desire higher HPS requirements in a fight. You're entitled to your opinion.

However, using a singular case that is an outlier in the entire raiding community as evidence that the current Meta only needs one healer is faulty logic. Yes the raiding community is small in general but taking one very niche and specific example and citing it as indicative of the entire healer meta is illogical.

So I agree, the Autism example that Lyrics is fond of using is quite apt in this case. You're more likely to garner more support if you were to argue single tank meta in T8 and T9 era as that was indeed the case and also the optimal composition.

Solo heal meta, base on the way tbisbraid tier is designed, will never come to fruition.

Is there even an A4S solo heal? Would love to see it if it happens before the current raid tier dies.

And no I never stated I wanted healing requirements to be higher. I stated i do not have an opinion on that. What I did have an opinion on was if SE could come up with mechanics for making greater use of scholar shielding during the fights over just letting the scholar be dealing damage 80% of the raid.

Here you state that I am using just one example to present my entire case then you need to actually read my posts which I explained crystal clear during the first two fights of Savage my teams scholar was almost entire a damage dealer that only provided healing for about 20% of the fight. I was asked if I have ever seen the healing require for As3 so I posted a video that shows an astrologian did solo heal As3.

And trying to put words into my mouth when I never said I wanted higher healing requirements seems a bit off setting. If you would actually properly quote the complete post instead of taking snippets of it to alter the meaning of the post then the true statement would be defined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iALJrcwI58s

If the encounter can be solo healed then I believe that was the point being made. Feels like having two healers in the raid scenario is a waste of the healers strength if they are pushing the scholar to dps primarily.

One there was not even a scholar in that video I linked so therefore it is used only in regards to the post above me where someone asked if I have ever seen how much healing is involved in As3 which I have not and quickly found a video that had someone handle the healing of it solo. Considering there is not even a scholar in that video posted then if would read the above statements instead of just pulling from one or two posts that is clearly not part of how this debate has shifted you would understand I was inferring to about the scholar that was in my raid group.

You pulled quotes from my other posts which I expanded upon that topic so I hope you would have read it in full without just gazing over it to try to support yourself. I feel that I have given this matter more then enough counter debate and if you want to stop trying to create a meta criteria that was not in the initial part of the conversation then we can discuss this to your heart's desire but anyhow I rest my case.

[FeliAiko]

I was asked if I have ever seen the healing require for As3 so I posted a video that shows an astrologian did solo heal As3..

Actually, you weren't asked anything. That question was directed to Vlady, to which you chose to interject yourself into the exchange by posting that video as a 'response' to the question.

Anyways, you need to let it go. By your own admission you've never healed in A3/A4S, nor have an opinion on the issue (despite involving yourself into the subject anyway), so you're not really in a position of credibility when it comes to the matter on healing meta. Using an isolated incident isn't reflective of anything beyond the isolated circumstances therein. If I recall there's also a solo PLD A3S, so by this logic PLD's shouldn't be getting their planned adjustments in 3.2 because evidently they're far superior to the other tanks based on that one video.

[Galdous]

Actually, you weren't asked anything. That question was directed to Vlady, to which you chose to interject yourself into the exchange by posting that video as a 'response' to the question.

Anyways, you need to let it go. By your own admission you've never healed in A3/A4S, nor have an opinion on the issue (despite involving yourself into the subject anyway), so you're not really in a position of credibility when it comes to the matter on healing meta. Using an isolated incident isn't reflective of anything beyond the isolated circumstances therein. If I recall there's also a solo PLD A3S, so by this logic PLD's shouldn't be getting their planned adjustments in 3.2 because evidently they're far superior to the other tanks based on that one video.

The post the from Lego qouted I thought I was being asked if I healed As3/As4 via the quote. I stand corrected on that account because she quoted me again after the quote of being asked if As3/As4 was ever healed. And to the question as to why I joined in on the conversation is because I knew what Vlady was talking about since we have talked about it before. What I did not like was being accused of bsing just because someone is upset they cannot do what that team was capable of performing. I believe it was taking offense that my post was invalid because he magically just felt like it was invalid. That was what started this 4 pages of flying way off topic.

You can say I was butt hurt or my ego was wounded if it makes you feel better but I do not like being told that posting a video is bullcrap because he cannot achieve the same feat.

[Ghishlain]

@Gladous - I'm taking the very first post you made to this thread and trying to be one of the few people showing you what your logic is flawed.

Vlady's opinion would be nice to see Midas gave less opportunity for healer DPS as the current healer meta has a lot if DPS uptime. Another poster disagreed and you decided to interject with a video that showcased a high level of healer skill and raid prowess that does not match the healer meta.

So, can you see why its illogical to defend a healer meta post with a video that isn't even using the existing healer meta? If the meta shifts to that you'll stop seeing two healer comps and everyone will start repping a healer with a DPS which is its own issue.

[Galdous]

Why is it you insist on changing the actual detail of the post to try to fit it into your definition of a scenario that has no bearing? You are interjecting new topics and different topics that had nothing to do with that statement. The post did not refer to a reference of time of setting of whether content was new or if people had enough time to overgear it. It was asking if Vlad had even healed As3/As4. I posted a video showing it was solo healed and we had no reference of whether it was being healed when the content was new or if the content was 6 months old and being outgeared. It was just a video posted in the context of that above statement.

I proved that as of right now 3 of the hardest raids in the game can be solo healed. If you want to be specific on setting up your meta that is fine but to do it arbitrarily when that was not even what the discussion was about then claim that my reasoning is not sound from that reference of posting is what is illogical.

Had someone specifically talked about if he healed As3/As4 undergeared or overgeared then it would be relevant. Please do us a favor and stop trying to change the details of the conversation that did not even happen at the point.

[Ghishlain]

So basically, you posted a video to prove A3S can be solo healed and actually don't have anything to add to the healing discussion?

I could argue that you're changing the discussion to try to fit your own logic but then we're just going into circular logic (again) so we might as well end this train of thought now.

Some food for thought - multiple people have disagreed with you on the same basis and logic. Don't you think that's cause to make you question your own argument?