Astrologian impossible to balance as it is

[Galdous]

Actually, you weren't asked anything. That question was directed to Vlady, to which you chose to interject yourself into the exchange by posting that video as a 'response' to the question.

Anyways, you need to let it go. By your own admission you've never healed in A3/A4S, nor have an opinion on the issue (despite involving yourself into the subject anyway), so you're not really in a position of credibility when it comes to the matter on healing meta. Using an isolated incident isn't reflective of anything beyond the isolated circumstances therein. If I recall there's also a solo PLD A3S, so by this logic PLD's shouldn't be getting their planned adjustments in 3.2 because evidently they're far superior to the other tanks based on that one video.

The post the from Lego qouted I thought I was being asked if I healed As3/As4 via the quote. I stand corrected on that account because she quoted me again after the quote of being asked if As3/As4 was ever healed. And to the question as to why I joined in on the conversation is because I knew what Vlady was talking about since we have talked about it before. What I did not like was being accused of bsing just because someone is upset they cannot do what that team was capable of performing. I believe it was taking offense that my post was invalid because he magically just felt like it was invalid. That was what started this 4 pages of flying way off topic.

You can say I was butt hurt or my ego was wounded if it makes you feel better but I do not like being told that posting a video is bullcrap because he cannot achieve the same feat.

[Ghishlain]

@Gladous - I'm taking the very first post you made to this thread and trying to be one of the few people showing you what your logic is flawed.

Vlady's opinion would be nice to see Midas gave less opportunity for healer DPS as the current healer meta has a lot if DPS uptime. Another poster disagreed and you decided to interject with a video that showcased a high level of healer skill and raid prowess that does not match the healer meta.

So, can you see why its illogical to defend a healer meta post with a video that isn't even using the existing healer meta? If the meta shifts to that you'll stop seeing two healer comps and everyone will start repping a healer with a DPS which is its own issue.

[Galdous]

Why is it you insist on changing the actual detail of the post to try to fit it into your definition of a scenario that has no bearing? You are interjecting new topics and different topics that had nothing to do with that statement. The post did not refer to a reference of time of setting of whether content was new or if people had enough time to overgear it. It was asking if Vlad had even healed As3/As4. I posted a video showing it was solo healed and we had no reference of whether it was being healed when the content was new or if the content was 6 months old and being outgeared. It was just a video posted in the context of that above statement.

I proved that as of right now 3 of the hardest raids in the game can be solo healed. If you want to be specific on setting up your meta that is fine but to do it arbitrarily when that was not even what the discussion was about then claim that my reasoning is not sound from that reference of posting is what is illogical.

Had someone specifically talked about if he healed As3/As4 undergeared or overgeared then it would be relevant. Please do us a favor and stop trying to change the details of the conversation that did not even happen at the point.

[Ghishlain]

So basically, you posted a video to prove A3S can be solo healed and actually don't have anything to add to the healing discussion?

I could argue that you're changing the discussion to try to fit your own logic but then we're just going into circular logic (again) so we might as well end this train of thought now.

Some food for thought - multiple people have disagreed with you on the same basis and logic. Don't you think that's cause to make you question your own argument?

[Muahbec]

Can y'all please stop going on and on about healer DPS and continue to discuss the AST issue?
Noct sure needs some help BUT cards are also pretty unreliable.
SE just made an extremely complicated job to balance.

What they should do.
- Change some of the skills to synergise with both sects (i'm looking at you two time dilation and celestial opposition)
or
- Change the way Noct Works, some players gave the idea of a shield that reflects a % of the damage (that would be pretty unique, something i'm missing in this game to be honest, uniqueness. e_e).
or
- Change some of the cooldowns/potencies from cards and from most of their card-related skills so they can be more reliable. ( Really? CD starts AFTER you use your card? >_>)
or
- Rework the whole job, yes, we all must agree that AST is pretty messy, a WHM/SCH copy with some random almost unreliable cards that provides almost useless buffs (if an AST heals the entire dungeon/raid without using cards people won't even notice, so why have them anyway?)

What they will do.
Change shuffle so it won't give back the same card anymore. (Sure that's really usefull but we all know that's not everything AST needs)
And for those saying "we must wait for the full patch notes to be sure".
Trust me, they did this before (Don't you remember? "We will change the way Celestial opposition works so it will behave differently depending in which sect the AST is" .... sure.....cooldown has been reduced.....cool.....)

What we must do.
1: Play with this messy job knowing that it could be better.
2: Switch Jobs ( D: )
3: Dream that one day SE will be able to balance AST.
4: Wait for 4.0 so maybe (just maybe) the new skills added will somehow synergise better with both sects or maybe change how the job Works (Just like they did to you SMN)
5: Discuss and argument giving awesome ideas and suggestions on the forums and dream that they'll listen ( They won't probably )

AND nothing against you SE, is just that.... the whole hybrid idea was pretty horrible XD

[Galdous]

So basically, you posted a video to prove A3S can be solo healed and actually don't have anything to add to the healing discussion?

I could argue that you're changing the discussion to try to fit your own logic but then we're just going into circular logic (again) so we might as well end this train of thought now.

Some food for thought - multiple people have disagreed with you on the same basis and logic. Don't you think that's cause to make you question your own argument?

I did not realize general consensus implies opinion the same as fact. As3 was solo healed. That is fact. You saying it does not fit your meta because item level was inflated and the group coordination was on such a level that all but a hand full of people are able to compete such a challenge which in returns nullifies my conclusion that the healing requirement is still stringent enough to require two healers being well vested in concentrating on keeping the health of all 8 members up.

Why do people still tout this bullshit argument? Just because some extremely highly skilled players are able to solo-heal a difficult fight doesn't mean that there's a fundamental problem with the fight or the meta. People have been doing this forever in MMORPGs, but only in this one have I ever seen people complain so much about it.

The meta I guess insinuated was that the Savage raid for 90% of the raid teams in FF 14 requires two healers for the most part to handle the mechanics and burst healing for the fights. His response was a knee jerk reaction to a video posted that did prove that As3 could be solo healed. My issue is that fight is valid because it was still accomplished before the new set of raids came out. A white mage also solo healed As3 back in either October or December that I looked up just as easily. But that meta was not defined so if you are going by logic that example is valid and it is an insult to those who did accomplish that task to try to pretend it did not happen or it should not be seen that the fight can be solo healed. I believe the only reason not many have videos of it up is because it is easier to deal with the raid as you said with two healers. The scholar just pushing to dps more then heal which was where I was going.

Until you tell me why logically that video is an invalid example without trying to tact on criteria to a meta that did not exsist when the discussion turned to criticizing me for using the video as an example then you are basically trying somehow claim my example is invalid.

A3S was also solo tanked by a PLD
There is a difference between a practical Raid Clear and a Trick Clear. Its the same logic behind the people going for FFLOGS top rankings.

That I can agree on. As4 difficulty is of such a challenge that those who can even clear it just prefer to farm it then attempt to try a more extreme challenge of altering healer/tank numbers. That is why the number of videos is few. Only a minority of raiders who can beat all of Savage 1-4 would want to attempt a trick clear.

But I do feel at fault for spiraling this thread off its intended topic so this will be my final post on the matter above. Considering you are the one putting words into mouth when I was talking about how scholar was ending up dpsing more then healing was the real point of my topic. And yes you yourself said that using that video as a reasoning for why healing should be tweaked is invalid because of item level so slandering them indirectly. Well I guarantee you that group had the white mage/astrologian near solo healing the fight with the scholar dpsing 80% of the time like in AS3/AS4. Plenty of other videos exsist that show the scholar in cleric stance the majority of the time.

[LegoTechnic]

Don't sell the AST short, it isn't a terrible job, and it has its own strengths. The cards are an obvious benefit being the primary mechanic, but Diurnal sect brings significant regens that stack with WHM regens, and all their moves are similar potency. In addition their Noct sect gives them the equivalent of an instant-cast adloquium that, while lacking the critical doubling of SCHs and being a lower potency heal, still offers a slighty stronger standard shield due to the 30% bonus. And don't sell that instant cast feature short, because it's very useful. Additionally they have a Virus effect that lasts for a shorter duration but does not trigger an immunity effect and a lightspeed move that gives them a similar benefit as presence of mind.

Where the AST really needs address is in its aggro and mana management, and as a result its sustainability in both healing and DPS. Luminous Aether halves the enmity of spells cast while it's active only and lacks shroud's threat dump, and with potencies generating the rage of a WHM the likes of which a SCH never sees (unless roused whispering dawn is popped way too early), they have issues trying to set things up when adds spawn in the middle of a fight. Case in point, in A4S final phase when the adds appear and carnage zero keeps firing, an AST has to be extremely mindful with their heals or they might pull an add before the DPS get hate on it and cause it to run to a premature detonation (this is true for any healer using regens). This wasn't a problem originally when AST was introduced because their lower potency heals tended to rival hate levels of SCH, but when the potencies were adjusted to make them viable enemies started to really take notice of them. Additionally AST mana regen is terribly inconvenient with LA being their only static regen mechanic. While tricks can be used to extend it with Celestial Opposition (giving a free +1k mana) having RNG Ewer be the secondary mana regen means it will probably not be available when you actually need it. Even though 10% isn't much, Assize is still a lot better in a pinch than hoping for an Ewer to say nothing of Aetherize in general. And this mana regen directly plays into AST supporting DPS, which while looking fine on paper with decent potency and two unmissable dots proves to be an incredibly quick way to dry out one's mana reserves.

Honestly I think ASTs need a more efficient mana restoration mechanic, as well as a method of further reducing enmity during add spawn and untargetable boss phases. This could be something small like the MCH's +10 TP adjustment added to quick reload but stuck onto Draw instead, or a mini-Aetherize effect like Assize has. Maybe let them discard a drawn card totally for a quick bit of MP, though I would worry about such a mechanic depreciating Ewer's value. Otherwise I only really have Quality of Life changes, such as moving Gravity to a level under 50 so it can be used in level 50 sync dungeons and trials.

[Ghishlain]

Last comment as well on healing meta.

Gladous, its been explained to you why your logic is flawed. In fact you even restated it.

If you think I'm spitting in the face of the peolel who achieved such a glorious feat, you are now putting words in my mouth (see who else claimed this?) It's a glorious achievement.

But its not meta defining.

Do you know why an @ilvl argument is important? Because if it can happen at ilvl that means there would be no reason to take two healer comps in progression. That would be meta defining.

Using a video meant to show skill and achievement as validity to increase healing requirement is, to put bluntly, terrible and ignorant.