Astrologian impossible to balance as it is

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

You cannot speak of my point without adding in my entire statement made during the time. Taking snippets for index changes the entire shift of my original statement. It was in response to someone calling BS for using an example defined by the constraint of people's minds of what they define something. The fight is still considered the high end at of this moment and just because the healer is 15 I level stronger then when they was learning the fight 99.99% of the playerbase with equal gear still cannot perform that well. I was speaking if people can pull examples that only 2% or less of the entire gaming playerbase can use as a basis for their argument which seems to be done in regards of performance abilities of both dps and healers often then that video is still valid.

Well, no. Because the discussion went like:

I'm hoping Alex midas gives healers less time to dps.

I'm hoping Alex midas gives healers less time to dps.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Have you healed A3S or A4S? Do you actually know what you're asking for?

I'm not sure I follow you here. Have you healed A3S or A4S? Do you actually know what you're asking for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iALJrcwI58s

If the encounter can be solo healed then I believe that was the point being made. Feels like having two healers in the raid scenario is a waste of the healers strength if they are pushing the scholar to dps primarily.

Whatever came after that was beyond the topic at hand as it shifted to you trying to defend your ego of being called a gullible fool*. Now there's this thing about data and deviation. Sure, you want as much data included as possible and that particular solo heal scenario is part of it. But you can't make conclusions based on one outlier. Because if you were, you should look at those Titan EX/Garuda EX solo videos too and nothing could be cleared any more by any group except for the 0.1% best of the best players. So back to what LegoTechnic mentioned:

I'm not sure I follow you here. Have you healed A3S or A4S? Do you actually know what you're asking for?

And I have not done As3/4

If you haven't done it and you've found ONE video that showed an extremely overgeared group solo heal something you haven't done yet, why are you taking it for granted? This is pretty much in line with the "if google was a guy" joke.


*The way I interpret this particular sentence:

Why do people still tout this bullshit argument?

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

think it would be less fun to play an encounter where all of the dps related skills go to waste.

What are you doing? You're about to summon healers-shouldn't-dps-cultists!

[Ghishlain]

@Gladous

I think most people understand the point of the original argument was that you and Vlady desire higher HPS requirements in a fight. You're entitled to your opinion.

However, using a singular case that is an outlier in the entire raiding community as evidence that the current Meta only needs one healer is faulty logic. Yes the raiding community is small in general but taking one very niche and specific example and citing it as indicative of the entire healer meta is illogical.

So I agree, the Autism example that Lyrics is fond of using is quite apt in this case. You're more likely to garner more support if you were to argue single tank meta in T8 and T9 era as that was indeed the case and also the optimal composition.

Solo heal meta, base on the way tbisbraid tier is designed, will never come to fruition.

Is there even an A4S solo heal? Would love to see it if it happens before the current raid tier dies.

[Galdous]

@Gladous

I think most people understand the point of the original argument was that you and Vlady desire higher HPS requirements in a fight. You're entitled to your opinion.

However, using a singular case that is an outlier in the entire raiding community as evidence that the current Meta only needs one healer is faulty logic. Yes the raiding community is small in general but taking one very niche and specific example and citing it as indicative of the entire healer meta is illogical.

So I agree, the Autism example that Lyrics is fond of using is quite apt in this case. You're more likely to garner more support if you were to argue single tank meta in T8 and T9 era as that was indeed the case and also the optimal composition.

Solo heal meta, base on the way tbisbraid tier is designed, will never come to fruition.

Is there even an A4S solo heal? Would love to see it if it happens before the current raid tier dies.

Actually I do not share that opinion. I only gave a reply to someone who was trying to understand the point of Vlad's post. I am neither for nor against because healers have tools to accomplish both. Refer to my post where I agreed with lego. I am only defending my post where I was responding to this post.

Why do people still tout this bullshit argument? Just because some extremely highly skilled players are able to solo-heal a difficult fight doesn't mean that there's a fundamental problem with the fight or the meta. People have been doing this forever in MMORPGs, but only in this one have I ever seen people complain so much about it.

That post is what raised my eyebrow. As3 was solo healed and the video shows it so I presented it as a post when someone stated the healing required on As3/As4 is stringent so I did a basic google and just posted that. What I am arguing is why is it bs when it was accomplished by a raid team. You Ghishlain are adding complexity to a very simple post with item levels and coordination when I was only wondering why I cannot use that as a defense. As I said I neither agree nor dis agree that healers should do nothing but healing. Yes I gave an example of a scholar dpsing 80% of the time for the first two raids of Savage but as I will say a third time I do not have an opinion one way of the other if healers should heal more or have time to dps.

It was merely a defensive post with the above said statement. As1-3 was solo healed which is 75% of the entire hardest raid tier currently avaliable. It is silly that people get touchy for showing a video that clearly shows that the astro and white mage can handle all healing duties for most of the hardest raids in the game. So why can I not use that video as an example again is my only question?

[Ghishlain]

@Gladous

Your argument implies that healing requirements are light because content can be solo healed. You are implying that the entire healing meta in the current raid tier is light and then presented evidence that indicated NOT the healing meta but an outlier to the current healing meta.

Out of all the raid groups that exist, I only know of three groups that have shown an A3S solo heal and one other person in my former server that can do it. That's about 4 players in the entire game that has shown they can solo heal A3S (Total players that have the skill level to do this is 32 if you include entire groups).

That's not meta defining.

[Galdous]

I am implying that someone states I cannot use a video as evidence because it is a silly BS argument as he puts it. I was discussing dynamics that I felt SE was originally wanting healers to assist in DPS then taking away accuracy gear led me to believe they wanted healers to focus more so on healing. If scholars have room to dps for a more larger portion of time then heal then perhaps mechanics that would almost require pre shielding or an upkeep of shielding to force the scholar to focus more on support healing and utility over dps might be a mechanic explored.

Regardless of how you feel that the video I used as an example was extreme and only accomplished by 1 group is not even relevant to the conversation. You are just adding fluff to a very simplistic statement I add by defining new directives that is not even logical to the core of the argument. Whether or not 1 group can do it or 50% of all raid groups can. It was done regardless. And I said that I do not agree that a healer should focus only on healing or dps. I am not a healer nor do I have a opinion on that matter. It is solely in the context of someone saying I cannot use a video as that example and my feeling that it is relevent. Explain why it is not relevant to my statement without adding irrelevant context like item level or how few amount of people can do it because that is after the fact and not relevant.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Whether or not 1 group can do it or 50% of all raid groups can. It was done regardless. And I said that I do not agree that a healer should focus only on healing or dps. I am not a healer nor do I have a opinion on that matter

If you had no opinion, why is this discussion a thing in the first place?

As for your video, have you realised how terrible the presentation is? I'll recap ONCE AGAIN how it all started before this little ego trip broke loose:

I'm hoping Alex midas gives healers less time to dps.

I'm not sure I follow you here. Have you healed A3S or A4S? Do you actually know what you're asking for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iALJrcwI58s

If the encounter can be solo healed then I believe that was the point being made. Feels like having two healers in the raid scenario is a waste of the healers strength if they are pushing the scholar to dps primarily.

There is so much information missing and that solo heal feat is nowhere near normal or even abnormal. As a result, you presented yourself as that autism lady from the if-google-was-a-guy joke. There was no way anyone would have taken your post seriously or considered you as a gullible fool AND the point you were originally trying to make seems to be pretty clear there. Aside from the terrible presentation, your arguments spread over several posts are so full of holes.

I was merely stating that if the scholar is able to divulge time to dpsing for 80% of an encounter for half of the hardest raids then the strength of the healers was in question.

Yet you know nothing of the encounters or the healing jobs. How would you know?

And if I was to actually go find the astrologian that solo healed that to somehow support my side of the discussion would that magically make me right in your books? No I have not healed As3/As4. I never said that the healing was not hectic in 3/4 nor did I disagree with you Lego because I said I agree with you which you seem to leave out. What I said was the video exsist that shows it was accomplished after you stated do you know how hard it is to heal As3/4?

If you want to quote me then quote this next sentence. I agree that healing requirements in As3/As4 is heavily required.

Yet you posted a video that would agree with Vlady who wants stricter HPS checks. Which would imply that the healing game's easier than you're trying to imply now. If not and you didn't agree with Vlady that the HPS checks needs to be tighter, why even share that video? Just to get your ego stomped by a lalafell?

It is my opinion and I have already shown it only takes one healer to beat As3/As4. And on the side of whether or not the healer overgeared the fight is pointless when you can gear up outside of the raid off Esoteric gear and Void ark alone. If you had only the ability to hit 210 gear from As1-4 alone then that would be valid. But you could stay outside of As the entire experience then go in after you hit 205+ item level.

Warriors and Scholars have beaten Titan EX alone. Does this mean Titan EX should be solo content regardless of level, gear, and job with this kind of argument?

[Ghishlain]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iALJrcwI58s

If the encounter can be solo healed then I believe that was the point being made. Feels like having two healers in the raid scenario is a waste of the healers strength if they are pushing the scholar to dps primarily.

YouTube video is an AST solo healing A3S.

First sentence states that someone solo healing A3S is evidence that the game needs higher healing requirements AKA "point being made".

Second sentence implies that SCH is unnecessary because of the first sentence and that SCH is primarily focussed on DPS.

Faulty logic: using a video that indicates something that is not meta defining as evidence that the healing meta is can be solo healed by every individual raider and thus healing requirements should be raised.

Gladous, you're entitled to your opinion but I would highly recommend refraining from using such a niche composition for this raid tier as evidence to support that.

[Galdous]

Logic eh? You are the one defining the parameters for which you are basing the argument but yet as long as we go by your parameters it is logical but yet anyone else has an opinion it cannot fit your meta. If you are realistically trying to debate someone on a logical level you cannot just say your point of view is right because my criteria is different. This is not a discussion of average or means. It is a video that shows something was done while the raid tier was relevant. And once more if you go by your logic then even using As3/As4 as any example is convoluted because only 1-2% of the entire gaming community has ever even seen those raids.

Plus if you look at my other posts before we even got to this point I explained that I agreed it was an extreme case and not worth drawing conclusions from. You are pulling from two different paragraphs now comparing apples to oranges. That original post was to point out that it could have been healed followed by if we are going by the logic of the post before me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iALJrcwI58s

If the encounter can be solo healed then I believe that was the point being made. Feels like having two healers in the raid scenario is a waste of the healers strength if they are pushing the scholar to dps primarily.

That was what I was originally talking about. Not that the fight itself but of the scholar's role being almost more dps defining then that of support healing. Once more you are comparing apples to oranges if you are talking about the original post then you need to look at whom I was replying to before you jump to conclusions. Considering there is not even a scholar in that video I would assume that it would have been understood as such.

@Gladous

I think most people understand the point of the original argument was that you and Vlady desire higher HPS requirements in a fight. You're entitled to your opinion.

However, using a singular case that is an outlier in the entire raiding community as evidence that the current Meta only needs one healer is faulty logic. Yes the raiding community is small in general but taking one very niche and specific example and citing it as indicative of the entire healer meta is illogical.

So I agree, the Autism example that Lyrics is fond of using is quite apt in this case. You're more likely to garner more support if you were to argue single tank meta in T8 and T9 era as that was indeed the case and also the optimal composition.

Solo heal meta, base on the way tbisbraid tier is designed, will never come to fruition.

Is there even an A4S solo heal? Would love to see it if it happens before the current raid tier dies.

And no I never stated I wanted healing requirements to be higher. I stated i do not have an opinion on that. What I did have an opinion on was if SE could come up with mechanics for making greater use of scholar shielding during the fights over just letting the scholar be dealing damage 80% of the raid.

Here you state that I am using just one example to present my entire case then you need to actually read my posts which I explained crystal clear during the first two fights of Savage my teams scholar was almost entire a damage dealer that only provided healing for about 20% of the fight. I was asked if I have ever seen the healing require for As3 so I posted a video that shows an astrologian did solo heal As3.

And trying to put words into my mouth when I never said I wanted higher healing requirements seems a bit off setting. If you would actually properly quote the complete post instead of taking snippets of it to alter the meaning of the post then the true statement would be defined.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iALJrcwI58s

If the encounter can be solo healed then I believe that was the point being made. Feels like having two healers in the raid scenario is a waste of the healers strength if they are pushing the scholar to dps primarily.

One there was not even a scholar in that video I linked so therefore it is used only in regards to the post above me where someone asked if I have ever seen how much healing is involved in As3 which I have not and quickly found a video that had someone handle the healing of it solo. Considering there is not even a scholar in that video posted then if would read the above statements instead of just pulling from one or two posts that is clearly not part of how this debate has shifted you would understand I was inferring to about the scholar that was in my raid group.

You pulled quotes from my other posts which I expanded upon that topic so I hope you would have read it in full without just gazing over it to try to support yourself. I feel that I have given this matter more then enough counter debate and if you want to stop trying to create a meta criteria that was not in the initial part of the conversation then we can discuss this to your heart's desire but anyhow I rest my case.

[FeliAiko]

I was asked if I have ever seen the healing require for As3 so I posted a video that shows an astrologian did solo heal As3..

Actually, you weren't asked anything. That question was directed to Vlady, to which you chose to interject yourself into the exchange by posting that video as a 'response' to the question.

Anyways, you need to let it go. By your own admission you've never healed in A3/A4S, nor have an opinion on the issue (despite involving yourself into the subject anyway), so you're not really in a position of credibility when it comes to the matter on healing meta. Using an isolated incident isn't reflective of anything beyond the isolated circumstances therein. If I recall there's also a solo PLD A3S, so by this logic PLD's shouldn't be getting their planned adjustments in 3.2 because evidently they're far superior to the other tanks based on that one video.