Issue with double standards with Se and defining between dps and support.

[whiskeybravo]

You are averaging all of Savage (and I'm not sure what the top 400 proves, I can tell you right now the a whole lot of the top 400 of any class aren't performing very well) which highly leans towards casters due to their A1 and A2 supremacy.

This kinda seems like a moot point since it's the only information available, regardless of the quality of information, it's the best collection of job/community performance available. Probably didn't need to go all the way to 400 but that helps even out all those padded dps numbers.

I find it pretty interesting, didn't seem like MCH was that far behind.

[Behb]

Pretty sure the number of MCH is way below the number of BRD, creating a statistical bias. I've checked DPS board for MCH/BRD last month and they were something like 5 BRD for 1 MCH on my server ..

I mean even if you take the top 400, you may not have the good sample compared to BRD since 400/500 or 400/2500 (just to illustrate my word, I don't know exactly the ratio) will not give you the skilled players with high DPS for MCH ^^

[Judge_Xero]

Pretty sure the number of MCH is way below the number of BRD, creating a statistical bias. I've checked DPS board for MCH/BRD last month and they were something like 5 BRD for 1 MCH on my server ..

I mean even if you take the top 400, you may not have the good sample compared to BRD since 400/500 or 400/2500 (just to illustrate my word, I don't know exactly the ratio) will not give you the skilled players with high DPS for MCH ^^

Yeah it's a tough call on how to accurately compare that data. Look at the case of SMN on A2S and you will notice that they dominate the first 400 data points which significantly pads their overall average.

I imagine you would want to compare 75th percentiles across the board to eliminate the bias caused by the # of overall players playing each class and use the 75th percentile to get rid of the really high (orchestrated parses) and really low values.

While it appears to be a lot of work done as well, I'm not sure about the credibility of it. Just a quick look at A1S NIN VS BRD there seems to be something off as BRD NA is averaged much lower than NIN despite having higher averages, not to mention that out of 400 data points only 100 are below 1133 DPS to a floor of 1087, so it's pretty much impossible for their average to be that low.

(maybe this data was collected a while ago?)

[Valkyrie-Amber]

brds dps is better when played at lower ping and cat like hawk eye reflexes on procs. as for mch can't really speak for them but apparently they are similar.

if rng is kind you get tones of procs if not your dps lowers alot. same if you miss a proc it requires a real focussed playstyle.

i prefer melee cause its simpler and less rng pain and a more straight foward playstyle.

[whiskeybravo]

I'll concede that smn numbers are way padded due to a2. They are no where near those numbers in other fights lol. Honestly could probably just look at a1, a3 and thordan. A2 being aoe-fest and a4 with ppl sacrificing themselves seems like you'd get skewed results.

[Kelevra]

It is interesting that bard/MCH have lower DPS because they are a support class. But yet SE claims support classes do not exist and even then, EVERY other class has support elements in them. Therefore.. every class needs their DPS nerfed, cause they support the team.

I don't think the answer is to start nerfing the other jobs, but to start making adjustements to Bard...cuz they rly can be better w/o becoming too '2.0 op.'

Things like Foe's Requiem actually affecting Windbite and Flaming Arrow, allowing Minuet to further augment certain weaponskills/abilities (Bite durations extended to 21 or 24secs, allowing Bard to ignore dmg penalties from Ballad/Paeon when Battle Voice (reducing the recast on this would be good too) is used along with it, giving Sidewinder a third potency increase thru use of Flaming Arrow, etc.), reworking the River of Blood trait so that Rain of Death/Bloodletter would also increase in potency (only twice) when reset by either 'Bite and wasn't on cooldown (if on cooldown...the timer would just simply reset as it already does now), etc.

I was also thinking about Bards being introduced to positionals for E. Arrow (rear), Heavy Shot (rear), and Straight Shot (flank/side)...but, probably would have to do away with the Rng in Mch main combo if that were to happen tho.

[Vlady]

Actually single target is what ultimately matters. Aoe damage is nice for moving fights along but single target dps is still the king of mmo standards.

[Aikota]

I'm confused...bard does do damage lol...the bard i run with is 1300+ a1s and 1200+ A3S...not entirely sure what no damage means exactly. MCH has lower sustain but can still be as high, as well as raising both mele + both tanks dps

[Critical-Limit]

Just another reason IMO they should just make a support role and break the trio (tank dPS healer)

[Vlady]

Alex is ripe with two fights catered to double dotting which does help quite a bit with giving the bard a perception of being a strong dps.