Issue with double standards with Se and defining between dps and support.

[Kelevra]

Where does this keep coming from? That because BRD/MCH has lower weapon damage therefore they have lower damage?

Do Melee have lower damage than magic users because Magic Damage is higher than Physical Damage? It's just a method to control damage scaling with gear and based on the job play style. If BRD/MCH Physical Damage matched Melee Physical Damage then they would put out so much more damage than Melee could and would almost match SMN in AOE potential.

I say that because with the strongest weapons currently available to us (i205 Thordan/ i210 relic/ i210 Eso weapon/ i210 Gordian), the gap in weapon dmg, considering just physical dmg dealers, widens again. Bard doesn't get an increase in WD going from the i205 Thordan Bow to any of the i210 weapons. The melee do get an increase tho....going from their i205 to any i210 weapon. Even if it's a small increase, it's still a jump in dmg for them.

But w/e. We've been back n forth on this for the last few pages. I'm just gonna agree to disagree with you. You think Bard doesn't need any fine tuning/improvements. I strongly feel they do and stand by that. Most jobs have gone through their fair share of fine tuning and such since ARR launched. And Bard is overdue for the same treatment.

[whiskeybravo]

But w/e. We've been back n forth on this for the last few pages. I'm just gonna agree to disagree with you. You think Bard doesn't need any fine tuning/improvements. I strongly feel they do and stand by that. Most jobs have gone through their fair share of fine tuning and such since ARR launched. And Bard is overdue for the same treatment.

Using the current balance as a starting point, for increased damage I'd say you need submit to a decrease in utility. Even DRG which has great dps is behind MNK, monk's utility is marginal at best, you bring them for damage only. This is the way the game is balanced, we don't get awesome utility and awesome dps in the same jobs.

You also seem to be disregarding the fact that nearly every raid group wants a bard or machinist for their utility not because of their dps. A lot of groups will even put up with less than average dps out of a bard/machinist because they want them there for utility.

[Kelevra]

Using the current balance as a starting point, for increased damage I'd say you need submit to a decrease in utility. Even DRG which has great dps is behind MNK, monk's utility is marginal at best, you bring them for damage only. This is the way the game is balanced, we don't get awesome utility and awesome dps in the same jobs.

You also seem to be disregarding the fact that nearly every raid group wants a bard or machinist for their utility not because of their dps. A lot of groups will even put up with less than average dps out of a bard/machinist because they want them there for utility.

1. That would be something I'd be open to.

2. I wouldn't downplay Dragon Kick. An Int debuff is something that nearly every raid group desires as well.

3. Drg has awesome dps and Battle Litany. Battle Litany is an awesome utility imo.

[whiskeybravo]

1. That would be something I'd be open to.

2. I wouldn't downplay Dragon Kick. An Int debuff is something that nearly every raid group desires as well.

3. Drg has awesome dps and Battle Litany. Battle Litany is an awesome utility imo.

Wasn't really trying to downplay DK, but DRK has the same Int down. The only additional thing is traited Mantra which is nice, but neither is a raid dps increase like disembowel or battle litany. Yea, litany is great, and drg has slightly less personal dps (than monk) because of it.

I think they should make a more damage focused brd/mch job instead of reworking brd/mch to do more dps at the cost of their current utility.

Dungeons/VA etc can be cleared by dps who only press 1 button over and over, so why waste time messing with something that works fine as is.

Not if EVERY dps was only pushing one button xD

[Nyghtmarerobu]

Why does bard need a buff? Because somebody had a fail Duty finder with 4 bards? 4 prolly, not i200+ bards. Prolly not even main bards. Bards don't need a buff, neither do Machinists.

[Judge_Xero]

snip.

Yeah, those i205 weapons are a bit of a strange beast for BRD/MCN that gear level must have fallen on some rounding point for what SE dictates for a stat increase. i205 was such a strange gear point to begin with considering previous gear.

I was curious where your feeling that BRD needs improvements comes from so I hope you don't mind that I looked into your FFLogs data. I can understand where you are coming from with the damage numbers you are experiencing, but on average it only leaves you in the 30th Percentile (75th Percentile is ~20% higher, with the best 95th Percentile being 40% higher). There is a lot more that BRD can bring to the table than you are getting to experience.

The Melee Rankings are in the Range of 30th Percentile -> 75th Percentile (+15%) -> 95th Percentile (+15%)