Issue with double standards with Se and defining between dps and support.

[Vlady]

I understand that SE wants to keep certain job dps low because they provide stronger support abilities and utility then other jobs but when 4 bards are in one Alex run basically nullifying the support abilities at minimum for the other 3 bards. And the most likely outcome is the support is not even needed from the difficulty level of Alex normal thus cripplying the overall dps of the bard/machinist for basically no reason. Bards no longer possess the ability to move around maintaining full rotation upkeep so this silly weaker numbers bard/machinist pull is pointless.

Please either bring the bard/machinist up to the level of other dps or give the bard/machinist the label of support so that so many lower end dps jobs are not stacked together in alliance/raids.

[Arrik]

This, unfortunately, is pretty much being seen as a non-issue at this point by SE. We have both the last "buff" to BRD/MCH expertly crafted to keep their DPS from not significantly increasing and the official word from Yoshi-P about the addition of a Support role which was basically "yeah I don't think so" to attest to that. *Maybe* as more jobs get added and it causes greater issues among any new "support" dps they add they will go about fixing it, much in the same way the 3.2 adjustments for tanks is finally being looked at.

TL;DR I log in less and less into FFXIV, with 3.2 being the last chance at finding a job I can potentially stick to. Back to Blade and Soul for now....

[Kelevra]

That's been my thinking ever since raiding Alex savage. I love Minuet and think it was a step in the right direction, but Bard should be allowed to contribute just as much dmg as the other dmg dealers....and never out done by a damn Warrior (no dps job should be out done by a tank for that matter----when played correctly).

*in b4 someone uses a2s/fflogs as a reference*

[Lemuel81]

That's been my thinking ever since raiding Alex savage. I love Minuet and think it was a step in the right direction, but Bard should be allowed to contribute just as much dmg as the other dmg dealers....and never out done by a damn Warrior (no dps job should be out done by a tank for that matter----when played correctly).

*in b4 someone uses a2s/fflogs as a reference*

A warrior and bard equally skilled and geared, yea im pretty sure the bard will come out ahead. (and I am not talking about trash pulls, that doesnt even count for anything)

[Judge_Xero]

But.....who brings 4 Support jobs to anything that matters?

I think that that's what Yoshi P wants to eliminate happening.

In the majority of content BRD/MCH is still pretty competitive where there is a mix of AOE/Multi Target damage.

[DBthaONE]

But.....who brings 4 Support jobs to anything that matters?

I think OP is referring to a DF run, rather than a static group. This is reminiscent of how SCHs were asking for SS2, not for static groups but more for DF groups when you don't have a choice of the other players you're paired with.

[Shurrikhan]

I think OP is referring to a DF run, rather than a static group. This is reminiscent of how SCHs were asking for SS2, not for static groups but more for DF groups when you don't have a choice of the other players you're paired with.

I wouldn't mind seeing the ability to queue as multiple jobs, even if only within a single role, to lessen that kind of problem. 1) Bard, 2) (if already another, better geared/higher preference/single-class-queued Bard) Dragoon, 3) Monk, etc.

[Arrik]

But.....who brings 4 Support jobs to anything that matters?

I think that that's what Yoshi P wants to eliminate happening.

In the majority of content BRD/MCH is still pretty competitive where there is a mix of AOE/Multi Target damage.

Yes, people in pre-made parties limit the number of support dps they bring, but:

1) Other jobs are not as penalized for doubling up as the support dps are.
2) DF will pair multiple support dps, making content harder to catch up for people. Especially in cases where the fight just is moved there. I *believe* you still can't solo queue for Thordan but as soon as it is this will be a problem, as will any fight of moderate+ difficulty.
3) Support dps are double dipped with damage penalties: 1 for existing and another 1 for using most of their support functions.

[Themis]

Yes, people in pre-made parties limit the number of support dps they bring, but:

2) DF will pair multiple support dps, making content harder to catch up for people. Especially in cases where the fight just is moved there. I *believe* you still can't solo queue for Thordan but as soon as it is this will be a problem, as will any fight of moderate+ difficulty.

When Thordan gets added to the DF it will be during 3.2 most likely, if not at the start. At this point, the highest item level will be increased which will offset a lot of the damage requirements that might be required.

It will be very easy to get hold of an i210 weapon simply through Eso + Gobdip (that will also be easier to get). A lot more i210 animas will also exist by then. Not to mention, a new tome weapon will be available that will be a higher item level than that. Not to mention that more players will have i210 Eso gear, plus a piece or two of the newer tier gear.

If Thordan was available right now, and there wasn't any way to control just what composition you would get, this would be much more valid to assume. I take issue with it, though, because the reality will be different in the future to what it is currently to a point where damage output is already going to be higher (unless everyone in the group is not very skilled at the game but that can lead to failures in any content).

On a musing: It would be interesting to see 4 BRDs/MCHs take on the content just to see how much of a difference it makes, if any. Of course, finding people to do that early on in the progression/farming would be almost impossible.

[Kelevra]

But.....who brings 4 Support jobs to anything that matters?

I think that that's what Yoshi P wants to eliminate happening.

In the majority of content BRD/MCH is still pretty competitive where there is a mix of AOE/Multi Target damage.

...any dps composition should be viable when 'dealing damage' is the focus

some groups are ok with a Blm and Smn in the party, some are ok with any combonation of melee in the party, ppl shy away from having both a Bard and Machinist in the party (let alone 4 as the op is talkin bout--whereas 4 melee or 4 caster would be less of a problem)...and it shouldn't be that way