[Suggestion: Dark Knight] How to make Living Dead more effective...easily!

[_slowpoke_]

As a WHM who loves healing DRKs, please do not change how LD works. It's hands down the best invulnerability CD in the game, and in the hands of a capable group translates to almost 20s of completely not caring about the tank (i.e, more time spent in Cleric). There's a reason its CD lines up with Benediction.

Yes, it's sort of meh outside of endgame raiding - so are a lot of other skills, really.

Right but I don't think you have to be healed to 100%, right?

Correct. You only need to be healed for an amount equal to your maximum HP (minus 1), as you explained. No need to completely top off a DRK with Walking Dead.

[SokiYagami]

As a WHM who loves healing DRKs, please do not change how LD works. It's hands down the best invulnerability CD in the game, and in the hands of a capable group translates to almost 20s of completely not caring about the tank (i.e, more time spent in Cleric). There's a reason its CD lines up with Benediction.

Yes, it's sort of meh outside of endgame raiding - so are a lot of other skills, really.

Why limit the benefits to static only? Yes, theoretically Living Dead can turn you into an immortal zombie up to a maximum of 20 (or rather, 19) secs, but from experience, that is rarely the case. Now let's take a look to see the difference between WAR and DRK (putting PLD aside since Hallowed Ground is on another level entirely). Also, all discussion are based upon PvE environments (static-raids / pug-raids / dungeons) only, for simplicity sake.

WAR's Holmgang is a 180 sec cd, bind and root self and target, HP cannot fall below 1 for 6 sec.

DRK's Living Dead is a 300 sec cd, dual-stage ability. For the first 10 sec (Living Dead), if HP fall to 0, the second stage (Walking Dead) will kick in. During WD, for 10 secs, HP cannot fall below 1. However, if max HP amount of heals is received, WD will expire and DRK will be vulnerable to death again. Else if max HP amount of heals is not received, DRK will die automatically.

Theoretically, Living Dead can be maximize as a ~19 sec immortally cd, however, that's pretty much limited to static-raids only (and probably with voip as well). Putting aside a couple of things like: common cd (convalescence / bloodbath, etc), the rooting effect of holmgang (since it's can be a good/bad effect depending on usage and it doesn't exactly prevent death for most situation), as of 3.0, there is one very important difference (besides cd duration) between holmgang and living dead; the ability to self-aid (in case healers are sleeping on the job or screw up).

I'm sure the rest of you have already noticed, but WAR have a vast self-aid tool now. Assuming all cds are up, from holmgang, a WAR can Berserk > Equilibrium (defiance stance) > Thrill of Battle > Second Wind > Inner Beast (possibly twice) and restore a healthy chunk of HP (for self-aid). Meanwhile the best a DRK can do once Walking Dead is activated is... Dark Art > Soul Eater for single target or Dark Art > Abyssal Drain + Sole Survivor for multiple targets. Granted the second option can restore equivalent or higher amounts of self-aid heals as compared to WAR, but for most cases you wouldn't even need to pop Living Dead under said situation (like big dungeon pulls) if you know what you are doing (even if the healers are sleeping on the job).

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not trying to call for a nerf on WAR, but what I'm trying to say is that for the most part, the 300 sec duration doesn't justify the efficiency of Living Dead, so on top of the animation update, I propose to make one of the following changes to Living Dead:

A. Cut down the duration, something between 180 and 300 secs, probably 220 ~ 240 sec for a middle ground.
B. During the duration of Walking Dead, apply a super HP leech effect of some sort (Bloodbath+ anyone?). Call it "Bloodlust" or something if it's to be a separate buff just for lols.
C. During the duration of Walking Dead, apply a damage increase buff with no downside, like Raging Strikes. Call it "Rage of the Dead" or something if it's to be a separate buff just for lols.

Personally, I think option A will be the best, since I don't think Living Dead really need a buff, just small tweaks which shouldn't be abused (like option C), though it will be interesting if they actually come true. Trying to kill yourself for a damage buff? Kind of fit the DRK image if you ask me. :3

TL;DR: putting aside animation update, Living Dead isn't worthy as a 300 sec duration cd, so the duration should be lower or some small buff should be throw in as a freebie.

Update: I actually miss out something very important, that is Holmgang requires a target within range to activate, whereby Living Dead can be pop at will just like Hallowed Ground. However, taking into account that Walking Dead can expire before the timer hits 10 sec, I'd say the targeting factor alone doesn't justify the 120 sec duration difference.

[_slowpoke_]

Why limit the benefits to static only?

It's not "limited to statics only". You'll just never see it fully utilized outside of endgame raiding, and that's fine. As I said, a lot of skills are sub-par or never get fully utilized outside of statics. Foe's (+ BV), Battle Litany, Trick Attack, Divine Veil, and many other skills really only start to shine when used in organized raiding, where you can coordinate their usage with other people. I don't know why this is such an issue. LD is fine as it is.

Also, all the buffs you (and others) have suggested would make LD completely broken and overpowered. It's already one of the best abilities in the game.

[Cynric]

snip

All the skills you just said don't require any coordination at all. They just require each player to be using an optimal opener and rotation. And Divine Veil just requires a macro or a place to use it.

Also each of those skills are just better in a team but none of them have the drawback of less coordination being death. None of those skills are even close to the same.

You're comparing apples to oranges.

When's the last time you've ever heard anyone need to let you know they're using Trick attack or littany?

Divine veil is probably the only skill that really requires any healer input to get full effect out of that you listed, however there are many ways to use it fully without 100% coordination down to the second with your healer. Unlike LD.

Living Dead requires coordination down to the second to get its full use.


@Kallera: Did you read the thread?

[Kallera]

...
Divine veil is probably the only skill that really requires any healer input to get full effect out of that you listed, however there are many ways to use it fully without 100% coordination down to the second with your healer. Unlike LD.

Living Dead requires coordination down to the second to get its full use.


@Kallera: Did you read the thread?

Yes I did. I think living dead should have a sound or an effect to go with walking dead to make it more obvious the walking dead effect is active. That said, the threat of death is always going to make the invulnerability of walking dead have questionable use in most situations.

[Cynric]

Yes I did. I think living dead should have a sound or an effect to go with walking dead to make it more obvious the walking dead effect is active. That said, the threat of death is always going to make the invulnerability of walking dead have questionable use in most situations.

Oh okay it's just your post seemed like it had something to do with Darkside o.O

[SokiYagami]

It's not "limited to statics only". You'll just never see it fully utilized outside of endgame raiding, and that's fine. As I said, a lot of skills are sub-par or never get fully utilized outside of statics. Foe's (+ BV), Battle Litany, Trick Attack, Divine Veil, and many other skills really only start to shine when used in organized raiding, where you can coordinate their usage with other people. I don't know why this is such an issue. LD is fine as it is.

Also, all the buffs you (and others) have suggested would make LD completely broken and overpowered. It's already one of the best abilities in the game.

Erm... nope? Cynric already spoke on the first part so I'm gonna skip on that.

As for "completely broken and overpowered"? You do know that the buff I mentioned is one of the three right? Considering the fact that it's rarely ever fully utilize, how will it be "completely broken and overpowered" if LD is shorten by approximately a min?

As for life leech, I mentioned it should at tops, tops (meaning walking dead run for the full 10 secs before it expire) heal only up to 30~40% max HP. Which means, the DRK will still die if healers are dead or sleeping on the job. This is mainly to help lighten the healers burden so they don't need to burn their biggest cd (aka Benediction). If you think this is "completely broken and overpowered", I direct you to take another look at WAR's self-aid set which I mentioned earlier.

As for damage buff, yup, it could potentially be broken, but consider this: for argument sake, let's based this on a single-target raid boss environment where both the WAR and DRK pop their oh-shit cd and will be receiving a Benediction from WHM.

Assuming WD get the damage buff I propose (let's set it on raging strike potency; 20% damage increase), within 10 secs, the biggest possible DPS spike a DRK can deal is:
(Pre-cast) Dart Arts + Carve and Spit (450 potency), Hard Slash (150 potency) > Dark Passenger (150 potency) > Syphon Strike (250 potency) > Plunge (200 potency) > Dart Arts + Souleater (400 potency)
which sums up to 1600 potency, add 3 ticks of Salted Earth at 75 potency and 3 ticks of Scourge at 40 potency each, that will total up to 1945 potency. Multiple it by 1.2 will result in 2334 potency over 3 gcd, averaging in (give and take) 778 potency per gcd.

within 6 secs, the biggest possible DPS spike a war can deal is:
Fell Cleave (500 potency) > Fell Cleave (500 potency)
which sums up to 1000 potency, add 2 ticks of Fracture at 20 potency each, that total up to 1040. However, we need to take into consideration of pre-casted Berserk (50% damage increase), Maim (20% damage increase) and that will increase the total damage to 1872 potency, averaging to (give and take) 936 potency per gcd. And that's excluding Storm's Eye's 10% slashing resistance debuff too.

And for further argument sake, let's assume I made a mistake in the calculation (which I most probably did), and say DRK can deal higher dps per gcd within the 10 sec Walking Dead window with the damage buff I propose, do recall it is on a 300 sec cd, which the DRK also need to "die" once in order to activate said damage buff. How many chance can you get to abuse this 10 sec damage buff in a single fight? 2 times? 3 times? Seriously, how the hell is this "completely broken and overpowered"?

TL;DR: Living Dead can be easily wasted, hardly ever fully utilize (outside of static-raid, probably equip with voip) and is simply a wasted potential as a 300 sec cd for the most part.