[Suggestion: Dark Knight] How to make Living Dead more effective...easily!

[Cynric]

The problem isn't the lack of an animation. I use a macro that shows my remaining HP and a sound effect to show I've used Living Dead with the name of the skill. That's pretty much enough notification, especially if spammed at 1HP.

The problem is that the skill has a long CD meant for 8~ seconds of invulnerability. However most situations with Living Dead either go one of three ways. Living Dead -> 1 HP ->Walking Dead -> Benediction/ Healer CD -> Only 1.5 seconds of Walking dead invulnerability. Or Living Dead -> 1 HP -> Walking Dead -> 10 seconds later -> die. Or my favorite one ->Living Dead -> HP Drops -> Benediction/healer CD/healer continues healing -> You never get walking dead.

The way Living Dead works in general is just bad. It requires more thought from the healer than any other Invulnerability cool down. If the coordination and thought between your healer and you aren't strong the CD can be completely wasted and most of the time it is completely wasted, only being useful for things like Holy Bladedance(sword oath) where there's almost no chance for you to not die(and i've seen a healer still manage to kill a DRK during Sword mode HB)

It's a bad skill, It has the potential to be a really good skill but that potential is hardly ever going to be seen in a realistic situation that doesn't involve a static group.

Making a bigger animation won't change anything. And honestly the animation is already really big , fire comes down from the sky and envelops you. It has more of a visual representation than hallowed ground or Holmgang honestly.

[Atoli]

And honestly the animation is already really big , fire comes down from the sky and envelops you.

Lol, really? I didn't even know it HAD an animation. Not even when I play DRK myself, much less as the healer
PLD and WAR are both pretty obvious, but I never saw any animation for DRK even once. Only the buff/debuff icon, that's it.

I agree that it wouldn't help all that much because the problem with LD is exactly as described above with either never hitting Walking Dead because the healer cure spams you beforehand, or dying because I never got enough heals during Walking Dead.
And I have to admit, as a healer I find LD really hard to work with. I had it happen more than once that the DRK didn't actually drop to 1 HP before LD ended, and then dying immidiately after, because the buff ended right when the last monster GCD hit, kicking that 20-50 HP DRK into oblivion..

[Cynric]

Lol, really? I didn't even know it HAD an animation. Not even when I play DRK myself, much less as the healer
PLD and WAR are both pretty obvious, but I never saw any animation for DRK even once. Only the buff/debuff icon, that's it.

I agree that it wouldn't help all that much because the problem with LD is exactly as described above with either never hitting Walking Dead because the healer cure spams you beforehand, or dying because I never got enough heals during Walking Dead.
And I have to admit, as a healer I find LD really hard to work with. I had it happen more than once that the DRK didn't actually drop to 1 HP before LD ended, and then dying immidiately after, because the buff ended right when the last monster GCD hit, kicking that 20-50 HP DRK into oblivion..

Yeah you stick your sword into the ground, create a magic circle then fire comes down from the sky and sets your entire body on fire. It's a pretty big animation

@Eidolon : It works like this. Living Dead gives you 10 seconds to die. If you don't die nothing happens. If you do die you get Walking Dead which is somewhat similar to holmgang in the fact that your HP can't go past 1 but you can still take damage after being healed. If you try to get the entire 10 seconds of invulnerability (meaning you wait 10 seconds to be healed) you'll die. You can't actually get that entire 10 seconds. Also if you are healed to full then you won't die but you also lose the ability to keep your HP at 1.

Basically imagine if on Warrior you used Holmgang then the healer benedictions you and holmgang ends immediately. Or if you were a Paladin and used Hallowed ground and if someone uses benediction on you , you lose hallowed grounds effect.

[Eidolon]

@Eidolon : It works like this.

Right but I don't think you have to be healed to 100%, right?

I think it's like, if you enter into Living Dead uptime, and have 18,000 max HP, you need to be healed for 18,000 HP. So say the fire Cure II hits for 4k, then they only need to heal 14k more. If the mob hits you for 2k, you don't have to heal 16k, but instead still just the base 14k.

Basically it seems like any time I use it I don't need a bene, I just need consistent inbound heals.

[_slowpoke_]

As a WHM who loves healing DRKs, please do not change how LD works. It's hands down the best invulnerability CD in the game, and in the hands of a capable group translates to almost 20s of completely not caring about the tank (i.e, more time spent in Cleric). There's a reason its CD lines up with Benediction.

Yes, it's sort of meh outside of endgame raiding - so are a lot of other skills, really.

Right but I don't think you have to be healed to 100%, right?

Correct. You only need to be healed for an amount equal to your maximum HP (minus 1), as you explained. No need to completely top off a DRK with Walking Dead.

[SokiYagami]

As a WHM who loves healing DRKs, please do not change how LD works. It's hands down the best invulnerability CD in the game, and in the hands of a capable group translates to almost 20s of completely not caring about the tank (i.e, more time spent in Cleric). There's a reason its CD lines up with Benediction.

Yes, it's sort of meh outside of endgame raiding - so are a lot of other skills, really.

Why limit the benefits to static only? Yes, theoretically Living Dead can turn you into an immortal zombie up to a maximum of 20 (or rather, 19) secs, but from experience, that is rarely the case. Now let's take a look to see the difference between WAR and DRK (putting PLD aside since Hallowed Ground is on another level entirely). Also, all discussion are based upon PvE environments (static-raids / pug-raids / dungeons) only, for simplicity sake.

WAR's Holmgang is a 180 sec cd, bind and root self and target, HP cannot fall below 1 for 6 sec.

DRK's Living Dead is a 300 sec cd, dual-stage ability. For the first 10 sec (Living Dead), if HP fall to 0, the second stage (Walking Dead) will kick in. During WD, for 10 secs, HP cannot fall below 1. However, if max HP amount of heals is received, WD will expire and DRK will be vulnerable to death again. Else if max HP amount of heals is not received, DRK will die automatically.

Theoretically, Living Dead can be maximize as a ~19 sec immortally cd, however, that's pretty much limited to static-raids only (and probably with voip as well). Putting aside a couple of things like: common cd (convalescence / bloodbath, etc), the rooting effect of holmgang (since it's can be a good/bad effect depending on usage and it doesn't exactly prevent death for most situation), as of 3.0, there is one very important difference (besides cd duration) between holmgang and living dead; the ability to self-aid (in case healers are sleeping on the job or screw up).

I'm sure the rest of you have already noticed, but WAR have a vast self-aid tool now. Assuming all cds are up, from holmgang, a WAR can Berserk > Equilibrium (defiance stance) > Thrill of Battle > Second Wind > Inner Beast (possibly twice) and restore a healthy chunk of HP (for self-aid). Meanwhile the best a DRK can do once Walking Dead is activated is... Dark Art > Soul Eater for single target or Dark Art > Abyssal Drain + Sole Survivor for multiple targets. Granted the second option can restore equivalent or higher amounts of self-aid heals as compared to WAR, but for most cases you wouldn't even need to pop Living Dead under said situation (like big dungeon pulls) if you know what you are doing (even if the healers are sleeping on the job).

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not trying to call for a nerf on WAR, but what I'm trying to say is that for the most part, the 300 sec duration doesn't justify the efficiency of Living Dead, so on top of the animation update, I propose to make one of the following changes to Living Dead:

A. Cut down the duration, something between 180 and 300 secs, probably 220 ~ 240 sec for a middle ground.
B. During the duration of Walking Dead, apply a super HP leech effect of some sort (Bloodbath+ anyone?). Call it "Bloodlust" or something if it's to be a separate buff just for lols.
C. During the duration of Walking Dead, apply a damage increase buff with no downside, like Raging Strikes. Call it "Rage of the Dead" or something if it's to be a separate buff just for lols.

Personally, I think option A will be the best, since I don't think Living Dead really need a buff, just small tweaks which shouldn't be abused (like option C), though it will be interesting if they actually come true. Trying to kill yourself for a damage buff? Kind of fit the DRK image if you ask me. :3

TL;DR: putting aside animation update, Living Dead isn't worthy as a 300 sec duration cd, so the duration should be lower or some small buff should be throw in as a freebie.

Update: I actually miss out something very important, that is Holmgang requires a target within range to activate, whereby Living Dead can be pop at will just like Hallowed Ground. However, taking into account that Walking Dead can expire before the timer hits 10 sec, I'd say the targeting factor alone doesn't justify the 120 sec duration difference.

[_slowpoke_]

Why limit the benefits to static only?

It's not "limited to statics only". You'll just never see it fully utilized outside of endgame raiding, and that's fine. As I said, a lot of skills are sub-par or never get fully utilized outside of statics. Foe's (+ BV), Battle Litany, Trick Attack, Divine Veil, and many other skills really only start to shine when used in organized raiding, where you can coordinate their usage with other people. I don't know why this is such an issue. LD is fine as it is.

Also, all the buffs you (and others) have suggested would make LD completely broken and overpowered. It's already one of the best abilities in the game.