Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[Fyce]

The whole sports analogy falls flat. You wouldn't play soccer with Ski boots jim again would you?

The duty finder allows ski boots jim to do his thing. Grouping with unknown people who can't be held accountable for anything is the problem.

The Duty Finder and how content is designed around a no one left behind we all get gold stars mentality. Is the problem.

Why do japanese players manage it fine then? Is their game different than the ones running on EU/NA servers? These are rethorical questions, of course.

Your point is to say that, since the game itself doesn't force DPS to play well and be on par with Tanks and Healers with some mechanics (in terms of responsabilities), then they are forgiven by default if they are underperforming no matter what... But since JP players don't have this issue at all, you cannot exclude the general behaviors and attitude of people to be a big part of the problem.

If our communities (EU/NA) weren't so selfish, we wouldn't need to be forced by the game to do anything, and etiquette would be enough to drive us in the right way, like it does on JP servers. But, I guess you're right in the end, we are a bunch of jerks, and we don't care about it.
However, if a good part of our communities wants to change that by scolding and trying to socialy punish these lazy players who don't care about others, I think it's still the best way to handle it... because let's be frank, the other option to put DPS checks everywhere is some kind of a confession about how we are miserably failing to regulate ourselves socialy.

The devs are already holding our hands quite a lot in this game.

[Andrea]

< Dang, I blew it ... darn sports analogies ...>

I've got a few questions for you or anyone really in this thread.

1. Do you feel Tank/DPS/Healers should at least know the basic rotation of their job when joining Duty Finder?
2. Do you feel that a Tank/DPS/Healer should give 100% in their chosen role upon joining Duty Finder? Ie Using all skills to the best of THEIR (not people who clear savage) ability? (to keep with the OPs example, popping enochian)
3. Is it fair on other people if they get stuck with someone who doesn't want to use certain skills because they don't wont to bother with it or are being lazy? Do you not find this rude in anyway?

Curious how some would answer these.

[Jim_Berry]

I don't mind someone doing 700-800dps in a group, even in savage, you can technically 7man up to AS3 reasonably easily (relative to how hard the fight is with 8 people, doing it 7man isn't that much harder) so 7-800dps from one dps isn't too bad at all. I am upset at the people who do like 300-400 dps, who don't do positionals and follow no type of rotation at all, making up skill rotations as they go through the fight with no order. These are the people who need to be given some way to learn how to play their class better.

Everyday, I have to listen to people bash me for stepping on Faust's flank to get a quick "Armor Crush" in...

[DPZ2]

Questions

A response for you

There is not set rotation for tanks or healers, as everything is situational. I won't like it if a tank pulls 12 mobs when there are two lancers as DPS in the party [Dzamael Darkhold, I'm looking at you], but I won't immediately assume the tank is bad. I won't like it if I die during a boss fight because I manage to get in the boss's bad graces, but I won't blame the healer immediately if that happens. And I pay more attention to what I personally am doing as a DPS than to what the other DPS is doing ... I don't have the luxury of doing otherwise.

If I have the time to pay attention to someone else's rotation, it means I'm not fully engaged in what's going on, so how can I be doing my own 'personal best'.

Am I open to suggestions? Absolutely. Do I respond well to suggestions that are prefaced by rude remarks? Nope.

[Vehementi]

The devs are already holding our hands quite a lot in this game.

They really are.. With the exception of WoW dumbing everything down. A lot of MMO's have much more complicated fights. They have many checks needed for raids and even group content.

However, they have a larger party size. Support is an actual role. But.. Everyone will cheese fights and push the line of exploiting, just so it gets done faster.

At the same time because no matter how average a player is. A dungeon run can easily get pulled off by even a squishy dps, pulling off the role as tank who for what ever reason revived rather than waiting to be revived.

Which is why dungeon finder actually works. People use it because we know no matter how bad the team up is.. The run will be a success.

Honestly, those agreeing with the OP is like the guy that complains the cleaners missed the spot under the fridge therefor they don't deserve to be paid. Meanwhile, no matter what they'd never be happy and wouldn't pay at all.

[Andrea]

A response for you

I agree with most you have to say but you don't need to pay more attention to other people to know someone isn't doing something in this game really.

And I will agree, again using the OPs post as an example that their are ways to go about asking people to step it up or if they need help instead of jumping to insults.

[tjw]

and then you wonder why the most potentially frustrating fights of this game are the ones where the devs give DPS players a shred of responsibility

And then if that fails, it's the healer's fault for not adding enough DPS. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

...or hearing the full thrust sfx over and over

That one MNK I had the misfortune to run into in DF, only using Touch of Death and nothing else. Was so close to muting the game.

[DPZ2]

Questions

Where does one set the line for that "100%"? Under what circumstances (short of cheating with the much-whispered P-word) can you even tell?

The game does not tell us that we required to go to some mystic web-site to find the optimal rotation for our class. I can tell you right now that this
Opener
Ley Lines > Enochian > Thunder > Sharp Cast > Fire 3 > Raging Strikes > Fire > Fire IV > Fire IV > Fire IV > Firestarter > Swiftcast > Fire IV > Convert > Fire IV
Rotation
Blizzard III > Blizzard IV > Thunder > Fire III > Fire IV > Fire IV > Fire > Fire IV > Fire IV
When Enochian is off cooldown
Blizzard III > Thunder > Scathe > Sharpcast > Enochian > Fire III > Fire > Fire IV > Fire IV > Fire IV > Firestarter > Fire IV

is not something a new level 60 is going to work through the first time they visit a level 60 instance.

Oh yeah, you don't even get Fire IV to use in that rotation until you hit 60.

[RiceisNice]

A response for you

. And I pay more attention to what I personally am doing as a DPS than to what the other DPS is doing ... I don't have the luxury of doing otherwise.

The precursors of a bad dps is painfully evident that you don't need to pay specific specific attention to it. Things like bosses or mobs taking much longer to die, debuffs or buffs missing, and seeing the same animation or hearing the full thrust sfx over and over

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

snip

1. Yes and no. When I join into any duty finder I expect to find a healer so obsessed with their DPS numbers that they risk, and sometimes cause, wipes left, right, and center, and expect tanks to know the basic combo to maintain hate and some CD use.
2. That would depend how you choose to define the role of each position in the party.
3. Don\\\\'t really care either way. If they use it or not isn\\\\'t any of my business and I won\\\\'t confront anyone about their chosen play style. What matters to me is that I\\\\'m giving 100% of my role, defined by my own position in the party and the expectations I have of myself. I find it neither rude or disrespectful. They may be learning, new, have come back from a long reprieve, or not have great awareness.