Why are low standards for dps acceptable?

[RiceisNice]

I was the healer in this group, first like me start out by saying it would have been better if you suggested to the BLM to use Enochian instead of putting them on the spot and asking them repeatedly why they didn't use it. After you said something, she started using it

Regardless of how it's approached, if the person in question is the unsavory kind, neither approach is going to work out. You either open up with an advice (which can be unsolciited) or ask them why they're doing what they're doing (which is what we have now). It's an offense if people take it as one.

This was Fractal, it's not super hard and doesn't require people to know the ends and outs of their jobs. People learn at their own pace. if you want to suggest something they are doing wrong then that's fine. If they change, great! If not, either leave or just stay for the ride.

The allagan Museum is still a level sixty dungeon, a post-end game dungeon no less. People by that point should have a general understanding of each skill as they gain it, especially in regards to BLM and DRG whose skills are all steps to their gameplay and each one progressively adds on; Enochian gives a flat damage boost (so there's no reason to not use it at all). If it was a matter of them not knowing how to use it or not using it effectively, it's a different story but I'm not getting that vibe as opposed to "mind your own business its my dps".

[FoxyAreku]

I've had similar experiences, usually with bards that refuse to use wanderer's minuet (or worse, don't know what it is, yes this has happened in 56+ dungeons x.x).

It's just the bar for DPS is set so much lower than it is for healers and tanks since this game's dungeon's are so easy and leveling doesn't teach much. It's a bit unfair, really, because you can guarantee if you have a bad tank or healer they're never gonna hear the end of it, but heaven forbid someone give criticism to a dps. :P

[Moomba33]

Well this topic has certainly exploded.

I agree that a 60 BLM not using enochian at all is pretty bad.
However, starting the conversation by asking if they were a bot didn't really set the stage for them to be receptive to advice.

To me how quickly the conversation became hostile is worse than the poor play (Not just blaming the topic creator here, the insults from the tank(?) towards him are unacceptable).

Can't really expect the community to improve when advice isn't given constructively or received graciously.

[Andrea]

Can't really expect the community to improve when advice isn't given constructively or received graciously.

Serious question though, Should it be the communities job to teach people how to play their supposedly main class when there is already a ton of stuff online?

If someone is too lazy to google "FFXIV Black Mage rotation Heavensward" then clearly they don't really want to learn and are ok with how they are playing that they most likely don't want advice.

It literally takes 10 seconds to google that.

[Moomba33]

Serious question though, Should it be the communities job to teach people how to play their supposedly main class when there is already a ton of stuff online?

If someone is too lazy to google "FFXIV Black Mage rotation Heavensward" then clearly they don't really want to learn and are ok with how they are playing that they most likely don't want advice.

It literally takes 10 seconds to google that.

Honestly? When I first started playing ARR, I never would have thought to look up a guide for playing my job well.
I'm on console with no parser so I never know how my DPS is and I mostly played with friends so I didn't have other people commenting on my performance. Looking back on it now I realize I was pretty terrible for the first few months. I only started improving once I got to 8 man content and saw other people with my job using abilities I ignored so I started making an effort to use them too. I didn't look at any actual guides until Heavensward when I wanted to see recommendations for how to incorporate new abilities.

I guess it isn't really fair to expect other people to teach you how to play, but I can certainly understand how someone could get really far without knowing. Solo instances are not punishing and if you're someone like me who mostly plays single player games looking at a job guide might just not cross your mind.

[DGladius]

Serious question though, Should it be the communities job to teach people how to play their supposedly main class when there is already a ton of stuff online?

If someone is too lazy to google "FFXIV Black Mage rotation Heavensward" then clearly they don't really want to learn and are ok with how they are playing that they most likely don't want advice.

It literally takes 10 seconds to google that.

This is a problem with lots of NA players, they go into party content without putting much effort into knowing how to play their class, have a mentality of doing as little as possible in clearing the duty and then throw a fit when they get called out on it. Is it too much to put in some time to improve yourself and research your class and the content you wanna queue for before going into it?

[Rubieus]

Valerian.. is that.. expert? .. unless he is in your raid group. it's not really your place to tell him how to play the game. if he wants to wear minimum ilvl gear then that is his /her choice. seriously. just don't, you'll thank me later. or not. either way, your time was wasted, and mine was for reading/responding to this thread.

[Campi]

Valerian.. is that.. expert? .. unless he is in your raid group. it's not really your place to tell him how to play the game. if he wants to wear minimum ilvl gear then that is his /her choice. seriously. just don't, you'll thank me later. or not. either way, your time was wasted, and mine was for reading/responding to this thread.

but this is an mmo, not a solo-player game

if a player do his job wrong, i will tell him how to play
if someone don't do the mechanics, i will tell him what to do


someone can't play and the other 3 have to deal with it, or leave?
this kind of thinking is horribly wrong, sry


when i do team-sports, i will always give my best, i don't want to loose with my team
so why i can't do this in an online-game?


the picture with the tic-tac-toe game says it all

[Lego3400]

but this is an mmo, not a solo-player game

if a player do his job wrong, i will tell him how to play
if someone don't do the mechanics, i will tell him what to do


someone can't play and the other 3 have to deal with it, or leave?
this kind of thinking is horribly wrong, sry


when i do team-sports, i will always give my best, i don't want to loose with my team
so why i can't do this in an online-game?


the picture with the tic-tac-toe game says it all

There is a fine line between playing the game wrong (IE: Not using a skill at all) and not playing up to your standards (Not using a skill as often as you think it should be used despite victory)

[Archaell]

There is a fine line between playing the game wrong (IE: Not using a skill at all) and not playing up to your standards (Not using a skill as often as you think it should be used despite victory)

The main issue is that people want to get the content done. It is better to just carry the bad than trying to reform them. Funny story - I got few times scolded for explaining skills and rotations. Players just want to end the suffering as fast as possible, without thinking about the possibility of meeting the underperforming player again in the future.

As evil as it may sound I would like to see the duty finder matching players of similar skill together, just for a week or two, as the "feedback" on the forums would be really interesting to read.

One of my tanks today told me that I was the best dps in the group. At first it made me happy... then I realised I was playing the healer. Where would this situation be on your "fine line"? We cleared the dungeon, eventually, but when you do your best, risking tank's death to speed up things, while the mobs still die at snail pace, it can be hardly considered fun. (One dps was similarly geared as I was and the other one was about 10 ilvl bellow mine)