The new concept screenshot is a real-time in-game render!

[Wynn]

I guess I'll just enjoy getting good at the game without information in 10 windows on my screen.

I'll just be sure to tell everyone that I have the add-ons installed <_<

^This

loladdons

I miss the days when gamers were good and didn't just think that they were.

[Lavani]

Wrong!

Add-ons have the complete power to destroy a game without any abuse or misuse. Exactly as they have in WoW. There are thousands of players who do not understand how to play their class in WoW without add-ons. I am one of them. I was convinced into playing wow by co-workers and so the first thing I did was copy a friends add-on profile and have him show me what to do. When the game gets patched and it breaks my add-ons I have no clue if someone is cursed or if my Fingers of Frost are up and what have you. Add-ons that tell you what to do next after a skill only add to the lack of knowledge in how to properly use your class.

This is detrimental to the game no matter how you spin it. If we end up with shortcut add-ons like decursive for example (I'm sure there are better examples) it's all over. I am absolutely fine with things like UI skins, CD timers, parsers (AKA DPS meters) and non-altering add-ons. The second you throw in shortcut add-ons you break FFXIV. Even if, only for the simple fact that at leas 1/2 the population will be playing with a controller and targeting a shortcut will be nearly impossible.

Shipp actually illustrate my point perfectly with "You claim your GF has healed without any healing addons. This is simply ridiculous. No serious raid healer is not going to have a healing addon." If the game requires a 3rd party add-on in order to fulfill your task then it is broken, end of story.

On top of that comes serious balance issues and the result of inaccurate game balance is Elite mobs with 500k HP and no tactical strategy required to beat them. There is no other way around it besides making everything generic like Blizzard has done. Because the field is so vastly split due to which add-ons are used and by whom that the designers have to compensate with simplicity and numbers e.g. more trash mobs, higher HP and less or no visual clues.

Personally I cannot stand most of the WoW add-ons on my screen. They are designed by amateurs with literally no understanding of aesthetics or visual design and they clutter up your screen so bad that all you see is add-ons and nothing in the game. But, because WoW is such a cluster**** of a game, I have to use them. There is no choice and therefore I am forced to live with an even uglier version of an already ugly game.

Yes, some are great to have and I'm not completely against them as a whole but to say that there is nothing negative about them is absolutely ignorant.

This UI has all of the "essential" addons people claim are ruining the game. Tell me where the cluster**** is?

[Speeral]

Learning disabled i think. So zenaku is doing his best to present his opinion. It is forward but what eve's i prefer his honesty in the matter.


Personally i like the new look has a lot of room for creativity and adding different styles to the new zones. As well to those saying its a bait and switch its not first letter and poll we asked for significant changes this is precisely what we're getting

[Synfrag]

This UI has all of the "essential" addons people claim are ruining the game. Tell me where the cluster**** is?

Yes your layout is clean and you are running @1080. But you aren't in combat which means a bunch of flash indicators and such aren't running. If I still played I would ask you what you are using for UI and raid frames but idc now.

The look of it was a side comment. And more primarily directed at the terrible aesthetic design than the space they take up.

I still find this to be a lot cleaner

[Raikki]

But you aren't in combat which means a bunch of flash indicators and such aren't running.

I still find this to be a lot cleaner

Ironic. You countered with a screenshot which is outside of combat, not in a party, and not in a timed instance.

[Jynx]

Ironic. You countered with a screenshot which is outside of combat, not in a party, and not in a timed instance.

What are you trying to somehow say FFXIV is as cluttered as Wow's interface?

You and I both know that even in battle, in a party, with a lev screen up it's less cluttered still.

[Zenaku]

Ironic. You countered with a screenshot which is outside of combat, not in a party, and not in a timed instance.

and that still not even as full as how WoW can get with Addons to display information which make it not clean but hey you know that just me.

[Raikki]

What are you trying to somehow say FFXIV is as cluttered as Wow's interface?

You and I both know that even in battle, in a party, with a lev screen up it's less cluttered still.

No? I'm saying that pointing out how "clean" FFXIV looks when you're sitting in town not doing anything is a useless comparison. However, anyone can see that some things, like XIV's current action bars for instance, are a lot clunkier than you can do in WoW using addons.

[Aradon]

Wrong!

Add-ons have the complete power to destroy a game without any abuse or misuse. Exactly as they have in WoW. There are thousands of players who do not understand how to play their class in WoW without add-ons. I am one of them. I was convinced into playing wow by co-workers and so the first thing I did was copy a friends add-on profile and have him show me what to do. When the game gets patched and it breaks my add-ons I have no clue if someone is cursed or if my Fingers of Frost are up and what have you. Add-ons that tell you what to do next after a skill only add to the lack of knowledge in how to properly use your class.

This is you mis-using add-ons. When I started playing WoW, I played with no add-ons. Then, when I became frustrated with being unable to relate my performance to anything else, I installed recount. Then, when I decided I could react better to bosses with timer displays, I installed DBM. When I had trouble keeping my threat in check, I installed something to monitor my threat. They're tools, and you get the ones you need.

Your comments regarding balance are an issue the Devs would have to be aware of. The WoW dev team decided to embrace add-ons at the highest level content, to extend the range of skill and challenge at the top end, while leaving dungeons to be balanced without expecting add-ons. Even then, there is grey area, as I expect Firelands could be managed without healer add-ons, just not heroic Firelands. Still, if the Dev team felt that the FF XIV playerbase wants the game to be balanced without add-ons, then it can be balanced so they aren't expected or needed.

To address a couple of the other things you have said as well:
- You said that things like decursive will be unfair to controller users. This isn't really true, as controller users have other options for their add-ons. Things like bumpers to shortcut to party selection for healing, or in this example, simply holding L2 or something to shortcut a spell like Remove Curse. There's no reason that add-ons can't be made to take advantage of controller input methods; they simply don't map over 1:1.
- You said that you can't stand most of the WoW add-ons, but are forced to use them. This is simply untrue. Once I learned to manage my threat, I could turn my Omen meter off. Once I brought my dps up to an acceptable level, I hid my recount damage meter. Having Deadly Boss Mods on is hardly an information overflow, and even that isn't absolutely required. You could totally get through fights just listening to raid communication, skill, and timing memory if you cared to put that much effort into it. If you don't care that much, then I guess you'd prefer having the raid interfaces available to you. It's always an option, and I doubt the Dev team would start balancing to require add-ons, considering how vocal those against this have been.
- No matter how much you claim that add-ons will deter someone from learning there class, it is impossible to dispute the fact that most add-ons improve someone's understanding of the class. Threat meters teach you what is an is not appropriate for skill timing, and most of all, dps meters allow you to gauge your overall efficiency, and if and where you need to improve. The feedback allows players to experiment with different rotations or ideas and actually see if it was effective. You will note that players already do this with parsers outside of the game because it is so important. Whatever harm is done by those add-ons that tell you what spell to cast is vastly outweighed by the benefits of instant feedback and learning through playing offered by other add-ons. In terms of being good or bad for player learning, you can't say to remove all of them just because of the few add-ons that give you your rotations.

[Shipp]

Wrong!

Add-ons have the complete power to destroy a game without any abuse or misuse. Exactly as they have in WoW. There are thousands of players who do not understand how to play their class in WoW without add-ons. I am one of them. I was convinced into playing wow by co-workers and so the first thing I did was copy a friends add-on profile and have him show me what to do. When the game gets patched and it breaks my add-ons I have no clue if someone is cursed or if my Fingers of Frost are up and what have you. Add-ons that tell you what to do next after a skill only add to the lack of knowledge in how to properly use your class.

This is detrimental to the game no matter how you spin it. If we end up with shortcut add-ons like decursive for example (I'm sure there are better examples) it's all over. I am absolutely fine with things like UI skins, CD timers, parsers (AKA DPS meters) and non-altering add-ons. The second you throw in shortcut add-ons you break FFXIV. Even if, only for the simple fact that at leas 1/2 the population will be playing with a controller and targeting a shortcut will be nearly impossible.

Shipp actually illustrate my point perfectly with "You claim your GF has healed without any healing addons. This is simply ridiculous. No serious raid healer is not going to have a healing addon." If the game requires a 3rd party add-on in order to fulfill your task then it is broken, end of story.

In Vanilla and BC, raid encounters became too easy when people began using add-ons like DBM. So what Blizzard did, starting in WoTLK and really ramping up in Cata was design the raids around people using add-ons. EVERYONE has equal access to them. People not wanting to download them are the same as people who refuse to use macros. They don't think they should have to put in equal effort that other players do. Not every class has to use add-ons, healers have to use a healing add-on to pull their weight with healing. It is simply not efficient to manually click on a target frame, then press a button instead of healing as you target them.

Your issue about decursing, again, decursive has been around for ages and fights have been designed around it, starting with that guy in 70 Naxx who spammed curses.

The game is not broken just because they started designing the game around the use of add-ons. This is how a healthy MMO that is PC only SHOULD grow. Blizzard feels it is fine, and so do the majority of players. Blizzard killed one add-on in WoTLK that allowed people to draw on the screen and anyone who had that add-on would be able to see it. People were using it to mark the ground with designs to show people where to stand in certain phases. Blizzard broke it because it stopped players from having to think. All they had to do was move to the area someone drew on.

DBM is really made too big of a deal. It doesn't show every ability, it doesn't say there is fire under you unless it's an actual boss ability and he's casting it on a certain person. It says who out of your entire raid got grabbed by the boss and is unable to do anything. Something that can be viewed from the chat log (though the combat log scrolls excruciatingly fast, so there's no way people are going to reliably catch it), just like every other ability it warns of. It's the same thing as people saying, "Tiamat is about to fly in 10 seconds," in XI. Did that make the fight easier to have people aware? No, but it's useful information to know whether you should start resting. Same in WoW, it's useful to know moves like that to know that if you're a melee with no range, you shouldn't go off and pop your CDs only to waste them after 2 seconds when the raid boss becomes immune to your melee.