The new concept screenshot is a real-time in-game render!

[Zenaku]

Why are people complaining about addons? I find it funny that people are complaining about how the community uses add-ons and saying it's the add-on's fault.

It's both but w/e i wont be using addon if i don't want too and ilvl is one addon that would kill the community.

[Shipp]

It's both but w/e i wont be using addon if i don't want too and ilvl is one addon that would kill the community.

I don't think you understand how ilvl works. Each piece of gear in WoW is given a value which allows the devs to assign specific values of stats. Having ilvl of 333 means you outgear people of an ilvl of 300. It's the average of your equipment. Now, if a raid is designed around people having ilvl 359, then bringing people with ilvl 333 is CARRYING them through content.

The same thing was done in XI, though it wasn't called GS or ilvl. It was called, "You don't have all of the elemental staves as a BLM? Lolno you're not coming." Or, "BLM/SMN? GTFO the group."

People seem to think restrictions are limited to WoW, and that's certainly not the case. Would you bring a SMN/BLM to a healing party in XI when you're fighting an HNM? No. Why? Outside of a limited one healing BP per minute, that SMN isn't going to be able to heal at all, not is /blm useful for SMN at all outside of warp. That's the same reason people don't carry people in low ilvls through raids. For one, you can't even get into raids until a certain ilvl in Cata, and two, you're dead weight that can be replaced with someone who is actually keeping up.

[Zenaku]

I don't think you understand how ilvl works. Each piece of gear in WoW is given a value which allows the devs to assign specific values of stats. Having ilvl of 333 means you outgear people of an ilvl of 300. It's the average of your equipment. Now, if a raid is designed around people having ilvl 359, then bringing people with ilvl 333 is CARRYING them through content.

The same thing was done in XI, though it wasn't called GS or ilvl. It was called, "You don't have all of the elemental staves as a BLM? Lolno you're not coming." Or, "BLM/SMN? GTFO the group."

People seem to think restrictions are limited to WoW, and that's certainly not the case. Would you bring a SMN/BLM to a healing party in XI when you're fighting an HNM? No. Why? Outside of a limited one healing BP per minute, that SMN isn't going to be able to heal at all, not is /blm useful for SMN at all outside of warp. That's the same reason people don't carry people in low ilvls through raids. For one, you can't even get into raids until a certain ilvl in Cata, and two, you're dead weight that can be replaced with someone who is actually keeping up.

you needed the staffs that something else then you need to have a set score or GTFO it's a big diff. In ffxi a person who have good gear but not the best in the game was still allow to go to endgame. Now with ilvl if you don't have a set score let's say 500 you wont be allow in even if you have gear good enough to enter and do fine that the big issue.

[Shipp]

you needed the staffs that something else then you need to have a set score or GTFO it's a big diff. In ffxi a person who have good gear but not the best in the game was still allow to go to endgame. Now with ilvl if you don't have a set score let's say 500 you wont be allow in even if you have gear good enough to enter and do fine that the big issue.

You're making a comparison but you're really not comparing 2 similar situations.

In XI, you were allowed to go as long as you could support in some way because you were running with your linkshell. There were not PuGs doing sky/sea/Dynamis/HNMs. You were in a linkshell for those events and went with them. You might pick up a couple random people that were friends of people already in the group, but you didn't sit in Jeuno shouting for more.

In WoW guild runs, it is the same way. I haven't had the highest ilvl on one class, but since I'm performing the same role as I do on my main, they know that I know how to play and will take my alt over the better geared player who they barely know.

Random PuGs are a completely different type of group. People in PuGs don't know you. They don't know if you're great at your rotations. They don't know if you're a moron that stands in fire or not. They are more likely to pick a high ilvl person due to the fact that they are more likely to know how to move out of fire. They are more likely to put out higher DPS. They are more likely to know what they're doing. That doesn't mean that those higher ilvl players are worth their salt, it just means that the people are looking for the smoothest run possible, and if the same happened in XI, would you rather take a 75 BLM to sky that had all NQ items, no AF2, didn't use macros... or would you rather take the person who has numerous HQ items, took the time to farm sea obis, has AF2 and AF1, and uses macros? Assuming you knew neither of these people, you are going to pick the latter. Why? Because they have put forth the effort to gear their character and at least try to be the best they can be.

tl;dr: Don't compare WoW PuGs to linkshell runs in XI. Get a guild in WoW and make a comparison then.

[Zenaku]

You're making a comparison but you're really not comparing 2 similar situations.

In XI, you were allowed to go as long as you could support in some way because you were running with your linkshell. There were not PuGs doing sky/sea/Dynamis/HNMs. You were in a linkshell for those events and went with them. You might pick up a couple random people that were friends of people already in the group, but you didn't sit in Jeuno shouting for more.

In WoW guild runs, it is the same way. I haven't had the highest ilvl on one class, but since I'm performing the same role as I do on my main, they know that I know how to play and will take my alt over the better geared player who they barely know.

Random PuGs are a completely different type of group. People in PuGs don't know you. They don't know if you're great at your rotations. They don't know if you're a moron that stands in fire or not. They are more likely to pick a high ilvl person due to the fact that they are more likely to know how to move out of fire. They are more likely to put out higher DPS. They are more likely to know what they're doing. That doesn't mean that those higher ilvl players are worth their salt, it just means that the people are looking for the smoothest run possible, and if the same happened in XI, would you rather take a 75 BLM to sky that had all NQ items, no AF2, didn't use macros... or would you rather take the person who has numerous HQ items, took the time to farm sea obis, has AF2 and AF1, and uses macros? Assuming you knew neither of these people, you are going to pick the latter. Why? Because they have put forth the effort to gear their character and at least try to be the best they can be.


tl;dr: Don't compare WoW PuGs to linkshell runs in XI. Get a guild in WoW and make a comparison then.

Look i can care less at the end in wow people care too much about dps and ilvl at the end that what matter and that what i hate i understand gear matter but when a addon tell you oh this player suck due to this and matter what the player say he wont be allow to join and that what i think that addon should never be allow within FFXIV.

It's how ppl care ffxiv got 4.9score and this mmo get 9.9 they would play that over this and that what matter to them same thing at least for me.

anyways wonder why we got so off topic guess it happen in every topic.

[Shipp]

Look i can care less at the end in wow people care too much about dps and ilvl at the end that what matter and that what i hate i understand gear matter but when a addon tell you oh this player suck due to this and matter what the player say he wont be allow to join and that what i think that addon should never be allow within FFXIV.

It's how ppl care ffxiv got 4.9score and this mmo get 9.9 they would play that over this and that what matter to them same thing at least for me.

anyways wonder why we got so off topic guess it happen in every topic.

You have very little experience about WoW. You mainly played on a private server, and you claim you've played since Cata, yet nobody uses gearscore in Cata. This sounds like you are simply repeating what you've heard other WoW players say, damned if it's true or not.

The addons don't tell you whether a player sucks. You bitching about an addon stopping you from joining a raid because you're undergeared is what shows you suck. XI had the exact same limitations, though the execution differed, as many people have pointed out. You're fooling yourself if you think it's even a valid comparison.

You don't understand how WoW works, and I highly doubt you have done any serious endgame in WoW. You claim your GF has healed without any healing addons. This is simply ridiculous. She might have healed dungeons that you leveled in, but she did not heal raids. If you're trying to say that she healed raids without addons, then she is being carried, or more likely, you're lying about your actual experience of the game to try to boost your credibility. No serious raid healer is not going to have a healing addon. Those that don't are being carried, simple. It has nothing to do with skill, before you start on that. It has everything to do with how the above poster stated, "mouse travel time." There is no extra skill involved with performing clicking on a raid frame and then pressing a button instead of clicking on that frame and it healing with whatever you press while mousing over the frame. It is faster and more efficient, and nobody is going to perform two separate steps which don't need to be separate in the first place, faster than the person using an addon to cut out the slow-down from unneeded UI clicking steps.

You don't like WoW, we all get that loud and clear. You aren't talking about personal experience though, because you're using ridiculous numbers like "500 ilvl" when there is no way to even get 400 ilvl in the game at the moment. Same with the gearscore numbers you've provided, and that addon hasn't even been used for nearly a year. It was broken when Cata launched, and I don't even know if it was ever fixed or not since ilvl is better and everyone uses that instead.

You straight up make shit up about WoW, and you treat the game as if it's an ex girlfriend who cheated on you with 50 men. You slander it, lie about it, and harass it in literally 95% of your posts. You did this on Eorzeapedia, and you said I was the reason you were leaving, and you're still doing it here. EVERY post I read from you mentions WoW. The crap is old dude. People bashed WoW back in 2004, 7 years later and you are still beating the dusty remains of that horse. Get over it. WoW did not do a damn thing to you, and anyone who plays it can tell you are lying through your teeth or you are exaggerating in the most extreme case possible.

Any change in XIV that makes it more accessible to new players and you start harping it's like WoW. You harp that the new UI SS looks like WoW. You harp that the new graphics look like WoW. You harp that 2.0 is a WoW clone. You harp and harp and harp about WoW. You bring up WoW more than any person that even plays WoW. You are obsessed with the game that you supposedly hate. YOU come off looking like a sad person who has an unhealthy obsession with a video game that you don't even play. It's almost like you're a closet WoW fan, yet you're too proud to admit that something other than Final Fantasy can be popular. You'd rather Final Fantasy continue on the failing track that Tanaka was driving it down than welcome much needed changes that will actually help this game make some modicum of a come back.

Let the WoW issue die. Even people I'd consider whiteknights on this forum have told you flat out that you're wrong about aspects like graphics in 2.0 (BASED ON A CONCEPT RENDERED SHOT) looking like WoW. It's time to give it a rest, and quite frankly, a lot of people have told you to can it, even people on "your side."

Edit: Aradon, perfect post, and I'm glad you explained what most of the addons do and how they are definitely NOT playing the game for you. Definitely a like from me.

[Denmo]

My stance on all this arguing about Add-Ons playing the game for you:

You played FFXII and had a blast. I didn't see anyone (seriously) complaining about Gambits. The game was tailored to still be exciting and enjoyable with them in place.

[Zenaku]

You have very little experience about WoW. You mainly played on a private server, and you claim you've played since Cata, yet nobody uses gearscore in Cata. This sounds like you are simply repeating what you've heard other WoW players say, damned if it's true or not.

The addons don't tell you whether a player sucks. You bitching about an addon stopping you from joining a raid because you're undergeared is what shows you suck. XI had the exact same limitations, though the execution differed, as many people have pointed out. You're fooling yourself if you think it's even a valid comparison.

You don't understand how WoW works, and I highly doubt you have done any serious endgame in WoW. You claim your GF has healed without any healing addons. This is simply ridiculous. She might have healed dungeons that you leveled in, but she did not heal raids. If you're trying to say that she healed raids without addons, then she is being carried, or more likely, you're lying about your actual experience of the game to try to boost your credibility. No serious raid healer is not going to have a healing addon. Those that don't are being carried, simple. It has nothing to do with skill, before you start on that. It has everything to do with how the above poster stated, "mouse travel time." There is no extra skill involved with performing clicking on a raid frame and then pressing a button instead of clicking on that frame and it healing with whatever you press while mousing over the frame. It is faster and more efficient, and nobody is going to perform two separate steps which don't need to be separate in the first place, faster than the person using an addon to cut out the slow-down from unneeded UI clicking steps.

You don't like WoW, we all get that loud and clear. You aren't talking about personal experience though, because you're using ridiculous numbers like "500 ilvl" when there is no way to even get 400 ilvl in the game at the moment. Same with the gearscore numbers you've provided, and that addon hasn't even been used for nearly a year. It was broken when Cata launched, and I don't even know if it was ever fixed or not since ilvl is better and everyone uses that instead.

You straight up make shit up about WoW, and you treat the game as if it's an ex girlfriend who cheated on you with 50 men. You slander it, lie about it, and harass it in literally 95% of your posts. You did this on Eorzeapedia, and you said I was the reason you were leaving, and you're still doing it here. EVERY post I read from you mentions WoW. The crap is old dude. People bashed WoW back in 2004, 7 years later and you are still beating the dusty remains of that horse. Get over it. WoW did not do a damn thing to you, and anyone who plays it can tell you are lying through your teeth or you are exaggerating in the most extreme case possible.

Any change in XIV that makes it more accessible to new players and you start harping it's like WoW. You harp that the new UI SS looks like WoW. You harp that the new graphics look like WoW. You harp that 2.0 is a WoW clone. You harp and harp and harp about WoW. You bring up WoW more than any person that even plays WoW. You are obsessed with the game that you supposedly hate. YOU come off looking like a sad person who has an unhealthy obsession with a video game that you don't even play. It's almost like you're a closet WoW fan, yet you're too proud to admit that something other than Final Fantasy can be popular. You'd rather Final Fantasy continue on the failing track that Tanaka was driving it down than welcome much needed changes that will actually help this game make some modicum of a come back.

Let the WoW issue die. Even people I'd consider whiteknights on this forum have told you flat out that you're wrong about aspects like graphics in 2.0 (BASED ON A CONCEPT RENDERED SHOT) looking like WoW. It's time to give it a rest, and quite frankly, a lot of people have told you to can it, even people on "your side."

Edit: Aradon, perfect post, and I'm glad you explained what most of the addons do and how they are definitely NOT playing the game for you. Definitely a like from me.

Ahh nvm

all i'm going to say is i only played private server servers back in 2008/2009 and play real wow 2010-2011 and quit.

If they add the addon then fine i deal with it like i did in wow no need to quote me again i understand what you said.