Never Make Your Players Have to "Find the Fun"

[PArcher]

Eeehhh, it's an easy way out. Instead of making content that will actually hold its own, they put in restrictions (lock-outs, timers, etc) to make it stretch.

I feel the game really needs to rethink it's strategy as it's getting stale real fast.

OK, how would you suggest they do that? Drops that have a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a world boss? Requiring a stack of items that cost a thousand tomes each?

So many people say "this needs to change!" with no suggestions how to do so.

[Skivvy]

OK, how would you suggest they do that? Drops that have a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a world boss? Requiring a stack of items that cost a thousand tomes each?

So many people say "this needs to change!" with no suggestions how to do so.

Well, funny thing is, I'm not a game designer. Heaven forbid I have an actual opinion regarding current game play without someone trying to shoot me down because I don't provide alternative options. Honestly, I don't know how they could fix it, but they need to.

This game feels like a bloody chore to me, and that is why I haven't done anything worthwhile in game for quite a long time. But hey, I'm just one player. Take it for what you want.

[DragonFlyy]

This game feels like a bloody chore to me, and that is why I haven't done anything worthwhile in game for quite a long time. But hey, I'm just one player. Take it for what you want.

When the game feels like this, it is no longer a game for you. Take a break, either temporarily or permanently.

On one issue, the gating of things, if there was no gates on it then you would be here asking why there is nothing to do since you did it all and the devs can't keep up. I hate time gated material, but I understand it's need. It will either be time gated, or major grind (no relic is not a major grind. Check original Everquest hell levels and epic quests. Took my cousin something like 6 months to get his monk epic ... most of which was waiting for a single mob to spawn.)

[Kallera]

When the game feels like this, it is no longer a game for you. Take a break, either temporarily or permanently.

On one issue, the gating of things, if there was no gates on it then you would be here asking why there is nothing to do since you did it all and the devs can't keep up. I hate time gated material, but I understand it's need. It will either be time gated, or major grind (no relic is not a major grind. Check original Everquest hell levels and epic quests. Took my cousin something like 6 months to get his monk epic ... most of which was waiting for a single mob to spawn.)

Not everyone who complains about gates is a content locust that will do everything instantly without them. I have certainly had my share of not capping tomes and I also get annoyed at the fact that I cannot get them when I am interested in farming them as much as I want to.

And why is it that the thing that made MMO such a niche genre somehow seen as good because they "are not as bad" as they were previously? Things that make the game not as fun to play are not features.

[Archaell]

Not everyone who complains about gates is a content locust that will do everything instantly without them. I have certainly had my share of not capping tomes and I also get annoyed at the fact that I cannot get them when I am interested in farming them as much as I want to.

And why is it that the thing that made MMO such a niche genre somehow seen as good because they "are not as bad" as they were previously? Things that make the game not as fun to play are not features.

This is definitely annoying. I spent last month leveling an alt character on the Balmung and I had so much fun doing it that I totally neglected all the weekly caps on my main character. Now I am suffering the penalty for playing the game to have fun...

Funny story, I am also weekly capped on the both characters atm. The weekly limit is so low that not even two characters are able to fill the whole week. Maybe I should start the third one! /jk

[Purrfectstorm]

OK, how would you suggest they do that? Drops that have a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a world boss? Requiring a stack of items that cost a thousand tomes each?

So many people say "this needs to change!" with no suggestions how to do so.

I made suggestions to how it should change. And we don't need anything as extreme as a .000000001% drop chance. I remember Yoshi saying at one point that it was lockouts or RNG. I think this is such a narrow view and it's building the whole game around the people who will play 12 hours a day and have everything in a week. The game design should not revolve around the most extreme players in the population.

So many times, players have come to SE's defense with the "but it slows progression" argument. Like why do we want progression to be slowed down? Oh yeah, so players will "have something to do." How about if the game was just fun, then they would have plenty to do. This only supports my thoughts that this game relies HEAVILY on extrinsic rewards. Every argument is "well players will get everything then unsub." This is an extrinsic rewards argument. Players who think the game is fun apart from the acquisition of a reward don't and wouldn't make this argument because they do things in the game because those things are fun IN AND OF THEMSELVES. That is what it means to be INTRINSIC.

But yes, even if the game remains based only on extrinsic rewards, there are ways of slowing progression apart from time gates (if it is even desirable to "slow progression" which I don't agree with). Yes, RNG is one way. But we don't need .0000001% drop rates. We just need to calculate how much time players are putting in with the time gated content and then convert that into a RNG formula that would produce the same average time cost to players. So let's say that it would take you 10 runs to cap tomes for 1 item. You can make the RNG < 10%. Players then still run the content the same average amount of times.

Yes, players that run it more often would get geared faster. But I can't for the life of me figure out why this isn't desirable from a playerbase that complains people want things "handed to them." The players that work harder would be geared better and faster. What is wrong with this?

And if they would then unsub that tells us something very important: the game is not fun.

[Purrfectstorm]

Oh and if you need to remember to enter your house so it doesnt get demolished... Maybe you don't need the house after all?

Let me guess, you're part of the player base who doesn't have a house? It sure would be great if players who aren't using their houses would vacate so the players who want the houses could put them to some better use, right?

Except for one thing, when you buy something, you're not just buying the thing, you're buying the OPTION to use the thing. Let's say that I don't use the house ever. But then one day, I want to plant some Krakka Root. Do you think I'll have a better chance of planting the Krakka Root if I have a house already or if I don't have a house? Would you rather be the player who has a house and doesn't use it (but could if they wanted to) or the player who doesn't have a house and can't do housing related things if you wanted to?

So, yes, I have to remind myself to enter my estate now and then. Even if I'm gardening every day, it's actually entering the house that stops demolition anyway. So I wouldn't assume I'm not "using" my estate just because I'm not using the actual building. I'm not using the actual house btw and never have. There isn't a single piece of furniture in it even after all this time.

[PArcher]

Let me guess, you're part of the player base who doesn't have a house? It sure would be great if players who aren't using their houses would vacate so the players who want the houses could put them to some better use, right?

I have a house, and I think if you have to remember to use it you shouldn't have one either. Let someone who will actually make use of it own it.

[Purrfectstorm]

I have a house, and I think if you have to remember to use it you shouldn't have one either. Let someone who will actually make use of it own it.

Using a house and using a plot are 2 separate things. Because of the demolition system, you have to have a house to keep a plot. Also, as I said in my previous post (which you clearly did not read) - I have a house for the option of doing things, which I have a right to have bought and to retain ownership of. A) I paid my sub and B) I paid my gil. No one has a right to my house or plot regardless of what I do with it because of the fact that I bought it and I own it. If they are left out and agitated, they should complain to SE. There is absolutely nothing wrong with people using their property the way they see fit. If I bought a flat screen TV just to smash it to bits, that might offend you, but it's my right. If you don't like what I do with my TV, buy your own TV, and if you can't buy a TV, complain to the people selling TVs, not to the people smashing them.

[Lexia]

So, yes, I have to remind myself to enter my estate now and then. Even if I'm gardening every day, it's actually entering the house that stops demolition anyway. So I wouldn't assume I'm not "using" my estate just because I'm not using the actual building. I'm not using the actual house btw and never have. There isn't a single piece of furniture in it even after all this time.

Cause it must be so hard to enter your house for 2 seconds when you already on the lot doing stuff with the garden.