Never Make Your Players Have to "Find the Fun"

[Purrfectstorm]

That was the advice of a Dungeon's and Dragons DM's guide. And it's advice SE should take to heart. A typical game of FFXIV goes like this:

- Gameplay that is dictated by timers. It is time for a GATE, have to go do that. It is time for gathering nodes, have to go do that. Haven't capped esoteric tomes this week, have to go do that. Haven't gotten my Void Ark item this week, have to go do that. Haven't done my roulettes today, have to go do that. Have to check the plants. Have to enter my house so it doesn't get demolished. It's a chore list, NOT engaging gameplay.

FIX: Deemphasize content that can only be done at certain times or in certain timeframes. Leave nodes as is (to preserve item rarities), decrease the frequency that players have to check plants, and use RNG instead of time gates to slow progression. That way players can play WHEN they WANT. I feel like FFXIV is telling me when/how to play. I won't continue playing if this pattern continues (yes it has been like this since launch BUT it has gotten worse with every added game system; i.e. it's not just tomes anymore).

- Waiting for FATES. Whenever I have to wait for a FATE, I am NOT even PLAYING the game. I am doing rl stuff or playing a different game. While this isn't entirely bad from a time management perspective (a forced break), game developers shouldn't be encouraging their players to do something else other than play their game. What if someone finds a better game while they're waiting on a FATE. Then they're like, "Hmm, play this FUN game OR continue playing a game that forces me to stare at my screen doing nothing?"

FIX: When players get a quest that requires a FATE, an NPC appears for them in the FATE location, and talking to that NPC triggers the FATE if it is not already up. Players won't be happy with reduced wait times alone. Any nonzero amount of sitting around bored is simply unacceptable.

- Waiting for groups. My Frontline queue today ON A SATURDAY was 3 HOURS. Was I even playing the game during this timeframe? No. I was reading a book. The book was more fun and doesn't require a sub. Also, for the past 2 weeks, I've repeatedly joined or made PF groups for A1S. It's an easy turn now that people are geared and know the fight, yet what happens is it takes 1+ hrs to find a group, usually 30 min wiping, then the group disbands. Again, this is not compelling gameplay - it's just another purposeless waiting game. I don't have a static and a static is not practical for me at this time because of a changing schedule. I don't think a static should be REQUIRED just to play the game.

FIX: More non-instanced content (to have something FUN to do while waiting), remove lockouts or move to a CT, Void Ark-like lockout to increase player availability for groups, improve content rewards (in respect to Frontline), and generally add more mid-core content (so endgame is not just a 4-turn raid).


Summary
I think there is growing discontent w/ the status quo, so why not change things up? Players want compelling gameplay not chore lists, waiting games, and mindless grinds just for the sake of slowing progression to get them to sub longer.

Right now FFXIV is modeled almost entirely on extrinsic rather than intrinsic rewards. That is getting a new minion, mount, achievement, piece of gear, some other useless trinket is fun, but the activities that lead to those rewards are not very fun.

To make the game more intrinsically fun, we need deeper gameplay. Game depth comes from things like player choice (gear options, character builds, battle strategies). Right now 99% of player choice is "what is the most efficient way to get the most amount of chores done?"

We also need more fun content. My favorite content is dungeons but dungeons are boring lately. We need more dungeons like AV or AK. I think 24-person raids are just the worst. They are trolly cesspools of stupidity that last 45 min to 1 hr. We need content to make our chores less repetitive. Why have there been no more 8-person main story dungeons since 2.0? Main Story Roulette is just 2 duties! No good.

TL;DR - Players want to see more depth, more creativity, more engaging gameplay and less standing around bored, less waiting for x to happen, and less building our game routines around a repetitive list of chores. What this game does have going for it is the world and the fact that it's a very pretty game. I think crafting/gathering is more fun than in other games. But right now I don't think this will hold me for much longer if things don't change.

[RainDurell]

This is entirely your opinion, and that's cool, but the reason the system exists is because the system works.
I personally don't mind waiting for FATEs (I rarely need to wait for FATEs anyway), and your entire first paragraph is not a bad thing in the slightest. Weekly and daily limits exist for a good reason, and I, and plenty of others, have no problem with the current system.

...However I don't mean adding new interesting not-instanced stuff is a bad thing! Hey I'm all for new content :P

Oh and if you need to remember to enter your house so it doesnt get demolished... Maybe you don't need the house after all?

[Lexia]

- Gameplay that is dictated by timers. It is time for a GATE, have to go do that. It is time for gathering nodes, have to go do that. Haven't capped esoteric tomes this week, have to go do that. Haven't gotten my Void Ark item this week, have to go do that. Haven't done my roulettes today, have to go do that. Have to check the plants. Have to enter my house so it doesn't get demolished. It's a chore list, NOT engaging gameplay.

FIX: Deemphasize content that can only be done at certain times or in certain timeframes. Leave nodes as is (to preserve item rarities), decrease the frequency that players have to check plants, and use RNG instead of time gates to slow progression. That way players can play WHEN they WANT. I feel like FFXIV is telling me when/how to play. I won't continue playing if this pattern continues (yes it has been like this since launch BUT it has gotten worse with every added game system; i.e. it's not just tomes anymore).

This is not even a issue as there nothing telling you when you can and can't do it, ok the ARR once an hour unspoiled nodes are kind of annoying but the heavensward ones spawn every 30 minutes so there nothing really stopping you from deciding when you want to do it. Not like it only spawns once or twice a RL day. As for the weekly system how that even a point? Cause you get 7 days to choose when and how fast to collect those tomes or do those runs.

[OmegaStrongtan]

Pretty hard to 'find the fun' since the only fun content we got in the past few month is Thordan EX.

[Skivvy]

This is entirely your opinion, and that's cool, but the reason the system exists is because the system works.

Eeehhh, it's an easy way out. Instead of making content that will actually hold its own, they put in restrictions (lock-outs, timers, etc) to make it stretch.

I feel the game really needs to rethink it's strategy as it's getting stale real fast.

[PArcher]

Eeehhh, it's an easy way out. Instead of making content that will actually hold its own, they put in restrictions (lock-outs, timers, etc) to make it stretch.

I feel the game really needs to rethink it's strategy as it's getting stale real fast.

OK, how would you suggest they do that? Drops that have a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a world boss? Requiring a stack of items that cost a thousand tomes each?

So many people say "this needs to change!" with no suggestions how to do so.

[Skivvy]

OK, how would you suggest they do that? Drops that have a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a world boss? Requiring a stack of items that cost a thousand tomes each?

So many people say "this needs to change!" with no suggestions how to do so.

Well, funny thing is, I'm not a game designer. Heaven forbid I have an actual opinion regarding current game play without someone trying to shoot me down because I don't provide alternative options. Honestly, I don't know how they could fix it, but they need to.

This game feels like a bloody chore to me, and that is why I haven't done anything worthwhile in game for quite a long time. But hey, I'm just one player. Take it for what you want.

[Purrfectstorm]

OK, how would you suggest they do that? Drops that have a 0.00000001% chance of dropping from a world boss? Requiring a stack of items that cost a thousand tomes each?

So many people say "this needs to change!" with no suggestions how to do so.

I made suggestions to how it should change. And we don't need anything as extreme as a .000000001% drop chance. I remember Yoshi saying at one point that it was lockouts or RNG. I think this is such a narrow view and it's building the whole game around the people who will play 12 hours a day and have everything in a week. The game design should not revolve around the most extreme players in the population.

So many times, players have come to SE's defense with the "but it slows progression" argument. Like why do we want progression to be slowed down? Oh yeah, so players will "have something to do." How about if the game was just fun, then they would have plenty to do. This only supports my thoughts that this game relies HEAVILY on extrinsic rewards. Every argument is "well players will get everything then unsub." This is an extrinsic rewards argument. Players who think the game is fun apart from the acquisition of a reward don't and wouldn't make this argument because they do things in the game because those things are fun IN AND OF THEMSELVES. That is what it means to be INTRINSIC.

But yes, even if the game remains based only on extrinsic rewards, there are ways of slowing progression apart from time gates (if it is even desirable to "slow progression" which I don't agree with). Yes, RNG is one way. But we don't need .0000001% drop rates. We just need to calculate how much time players are putting in with the time gated content and then convert that into a RNG formula that would produce the same average time cost to players. So let's say that it would take you 10 runs to cap tomes for 1 item. You can make the RNG < 10%. Players then still run the content the same average amount of times.

Yes, players that run it more often would get geared faster. But I can't for the life of me figure out why this isn't desirable from a playerbase that complains people want things "handed to them." The players that work harder would be geared better and faster. What is wrong with this?

And if they would then unsub that tells us something very important: the game is not fun.

[Lexia]

Pretty hard to 'find the fun' since the only fun content we got in the past few month is Thordan EX.

That a personal opinion of what content a person defines as fun.

[LaylaTsarra]

I must be doing something wrong, I have fun each and everyday I log in and I play this game way too much.