Not sure when this became a thing, but...

[Lemuria]

If they ONLY want to heal, then I'm dropping tank stance, and chain pulling till your finger bleeds from pushing your heal button. Step up, use ALL your tools for your job, and if you can't switch jobs/quit.

Logic failure. If they only want to heal then you should only want to tank, but apparently that's too much work for some people. Newsflash people, healing is their primary job. DPS comes second to everything, and if you're sabotaging the group for the secondary characteristics, the fault lies with you, not with the healer.

There are plenty of reasons why a healer can't DPS, but there are no excuses for why a healer can't heal. There are absolutely no reasons EVER that a tank shouldn't be tanking and doing their utmost to mitigate damage when their healer is struggling.

As for "one out of seven" dictating the run, sorry but that already happens. So-called 'Princess tanks' that need everything done their way (not looking at anyone in particular) or they'll ditch. Tanks being a resource that despite SE's best efforts still seems to be in short supply these days. If people want respect, they need to earn it. That means respecting the players in your group as well. If your healer simply can't keep up because you're skipping mechanics, maybe it's time to play by the games rules instead of your own.

Arrogance breeds arrogance, and no one likes a conceited fool.

[Eidolon]

Snippers

I think his point was very poorly stated, but I have a slight disagreement with you.

You see, a tank has multiple ways to tank, depending on the situation. Just like how a healer has multiple ways to play, depending on the situation. A tank has the option to drop to DPS stance and push damage (as long as they maintain threat) and he's merely saying that - if you're not going to capatlize on the fact that I'm going to mitigate more damage in tank stance, then I'm going to capatilize on the fact that you only want to do healing and deal more DPS to speed the run up.


As long as he isn't, say, dropping to tank stance and ignoring mitigation completely (I.E., no CD's whatsoever), this is actually a pretty acceptable mindset. I dislike how whiny he was in his statement of it, but it's a fair point - reacting to your party members and synergizing well with them is important.

Now, if a healer's genuinly struggling to heal and you suddenly drop to DPS stance and wind up dying like an idiot? Then yea... Badtank/10. But most tanks are bad since the Warrior Epidemic, what do you expect there? ;p

As for the idea of kicking people... I mean, it's a group decision. If you kick a healer because they're unable to dice it, that's fine. But I find it'd be better to do something to help the healer than to just sit there complaining about the fact that they couldn't keep up with heals.

There's nothing I hate more than seeing people die because of failed mechanics, and people responding with 'lolhealers.' It's like the onus to do a DPS/Tank's mechanics is on them while they just don't care enough to do their own job.

Lastly, I wanted to comment on your thought of 'princess tanks'... Because, as a tank, I do take a mild exception to this. I want to say that, SE does not do much to really encourage tanks. Roulette bonuses give a pittance of gil. There's really no reason for me to do roulettes as my tank outside of faster que times.

But then, let's look at Void Ark. We are 1 of 3 tanks. There's a lot more tanks, so we wait 30 minutes. Don't dare mention that you have to wait 30 minutes, or you'll be verbally berated for it. I've seen people that said "Man that 30 minute que sucked ;-;" just looking to talk to their alliance, and what kind of reactions do they get?

"lol now u kno how dps feel. Suck it up."

People wonder why people don't play tanks. It's because they're taken for granted and often times abused by parties. We're expected to know exactly how much every person can handle pull wise, and the moment we fail to read them people either A) pull for us and expect us to grab hate off them or B) just verbally berate us afterwards. We're expected to DPS comprable to other DPS now, too, as well as maintain a certain degree of self-healing and mitigation so that other people can DPS instead of donig their job.

I'm sorry. "Princess Tanks" get a lot of crap for what they do. And you'll always be treated like the 'last mythical bad tank' they had.

[Odett]

Logic failure. If they only want to heal then you should only want to tank, but apparently that's too much work for some people. Newsflash people, healing is their primary job. DPS comes second to everything, and if you're sabotaging the group for the secondary characteristics, the fault lies with you, not with the healer.

There are plenty of reasons why a healer can't DPS, but there are no excuses for why a healer can't heal. There are absolutely no reasons EVER that a tank shouldn't be tanking and doing their utmost to mitigate damage when their healer is struggling.

I'm not going to get too much into this because this was discussed in a 100+page topic not too long ago. I don't exactly agree with the person you're quoting either, mostly because I do not believe that stepping down to the level of another player makes you the correct one; if anything, you're both wrong. At the same time, you're point has a double-standard. You're saying that tanks are expected to play to the best of their abilities and use their cooldowns to help the group as much as they can (as they should), but then say that it's ok for healers not to play at the best of their abilities.

DPSing as a healer IS optional, but context matters. If you're dealing with a carbon-paper tank, and DPS who don't bother dodging, yes, you have every reason not to DPS because you're stuck babysitting your group. On the other hand, if you're just standing there for 10+ seconds not doing absolutely anything, then there is no reason not to DPS. Your job as any role is to help the group get the clear using the skills and spells that you were given. Doing the minimum that your role requires you to do when the situation opens for you to do more is quite close-minded and selfish (not addressing this to you personally, but to the many people that think like this) and we as a community should not encourage this level of play.

[Jim_Berry]

There are plenty of reasons why a healer can't DPS, but there are no excuses for why a healer can't heal. There are absolutely no reasons EVER that a tank shouldn't be tanking and doing their utmost to mitigate damage when their healer is struggling.

As for "one out of seven" dictating the run, sorry but that already happens. So-called 'Princess tanks' that need everything done their way (not looking at anyone in particular) or they'll ditch. Tanks being a resource that despite SE's best efforts still seems to be in short supply these days. If people want respect, they need to earn it. That means respecting the players in your group as well. If your healer simply can't keep up because you're skipping mechanics, maybe it's time to play by the games rules instead of your own.

I'm one of the healers that get flagged for NOT putting effort into dps'ing. That said, it's the reason why I DON'T play WHM anymore (unless for a quick Titan Ex undersized).