The value of Carve and Spit.

[Carstien]

Okay, first let me say that I love carve and spit (CnS henceforth) but something bugs me. It's animation is awesome, the damage is awesome and the friggin icon is awesome too.

So my issue is the value. It has the value of a single syphon strike in mp, roughly 800 since I can't be bothered logging on to use it right now. Every 60 seconds this is basically a free unleash. It isn't bad, it should be better. It's our final skill. It should be double mp for what it is and the cooldown.

Under DA it becomes our most powerful instant damage attack. It costs around 2500 mp (DA plus mp lost from not using it to gain 800). For that we get a 450 potency ogcd. Great right?
Compare it to our other ogcd attacks though.

Plunge is 200, or 400 per use of CnS. That's for 0 mp cost and it can close gaps. Much better value.

Reprisal is 210, or 420 every CnS use. Admittedly this won't happen due to unreliability but it costs 0 mp.

Salted Earth is the kicker. 525 per target every 45 seconds. O mp...CnS can't keep up on single target and since most boss targets aren't being kited around this is just so much better.

Hell, for a minor mp cost dark passenger is 300 potency pee minute on one target. Just two targets and it outclasses CnS by 150 potency for a third of the mp.

I love CnS...but this just doesn't feel right. A higher mp draw would be ideal, or make it an aoe with DA. Failing that, give it an effect. Give it the slash res debuff for 20 seconds under DA. Make it feel like the lvl 60 skill it is.

[Syzygian]

C&S is the reward you get for managing your MP right.

If you have to use it for MP in a single-target scenario you failed.

In this sense it is the perfect lvl 60 skill.

"Did you learn how to play the job correctly these past 60 levels? You did? Cool, have a pseudo Fell Cleave off the GCD." - DA C&S

"Did you learn how to play the job correctly these past 60 levels? You didn't? Alright... here's a little bit of MP... git gud tho, will ya?" - non-DA (sadface) C&S

I fail to see how or why lvl 60 abilities need to be so grandiose. WAR gets Decimate, PLD gets Royal Authority... how are these innately better or more "suitable" lvl 60 abilities?

There's zero wrong with the skill. This whole competition thing you have described here between other oGCDs just doesn't exist. Your oGCDs are all on the same team - the team of your personal DPS - They don't compete with one another.

In the most basic of DRK rotations you maintain enough MP to DA every C&S and use DP on cooldown until you TP floor, without ever mana flooring.

Its use for MP is largely for when you are AoEing. That is literally the only time a good DRK should be using an unbuffed C&S. You should be managing your MP such that this is the case and this whole "DA C&S costs the MP of the DA and the MP you missed out on from not using it unbuffed" is bogus logic. Its safety net MP, not MP that is part of your routine resource management.

[Carstien]

Oh I am not disagreeing with that, as stated I love the skill and always use it for dps on single target but the value annoys me. 2500 mp for a 50 potency increase over plunge irks me. Nothing wrong with the skill, I'll continue to use it, but this bothers me.

[Cynric]

Oh I am not disagreeing with that, as stated I love the skill and always use it for dps on single target but the value annoys me. 2500 mp for a 50 potency increase over plunge irks me. Nothing wrong with the skill, I'll continue to use it, but this bothers me.

As Szygian stated the skill is a very good skill, But C&S goes beyond it's potency buff or mana regeneration ability. C&S is also one of the few skills you have that has absolutely no animation lock at all and can be double weaved with pretty much any other OGCD if done correctly.

There are lots of tiny niche uses for the skill as well. Did you MP floor or make a mistake in management? C&S without DA can give you enough manae to get some snap hate with an unleash or almost enough to turn grit back on if you find yourself in a troublesome situation.

In AoE situations it gives you more mana to spam Abyssal Drain, or it can make the use of DA+ Dark Dance, DA + Dark passenger not as bad. If you plan out your rotation correctly you can still get a Dark Arts Souleater and a DA C&S right after each other. With Bloodbath up C&S is one of our most restorative OGCD's in terms of raw value. Under Blood Weapon, being a physical attack it still will restore a portion of mana back that was spent.

And again that animation is one of the easiest ones to cut off with another OGCD, which lets you do things like (DA+C&S)or (C&S+DA)if you already have a DA buff on you can spend it on C&S and prepare the next one for Dark Dance,Dark Passenger, or more commonly Soul Eater, ( C&S+BW), (C&S+DP),(C&S+Reprisal) you can even do (C&S + Mitigation CD)

It's just an overall versatile move in terms of its effects +MP/450 potency(both if BW on) and an easy to double weave animation. Probably one of my favorite moves in the entire kit.

[Syzygian]

You know, I take it back, there is something wrong with the skill. The name.

Wtf are we spitting exactly?

[MagiusNecros]

You know, I take it back, there is something wrong with the skill. The name.

Wtf are we spitting exactly?

I think they made a typo. Carve and Split makes more sense to me.

[Anienai]

You know, I take it back, there is something wrong with the skill. The name.

Wtf are we spitting exactly?

Knowledge..

[Cynric]

You know, I take it back, there is something wrong with the skill. The name.

Wtf are we spitting exactly?

Yeah I mean I see a lot of carving but not a whole lot of spitting... Maybe it's something we do after? Then we eat the enemy to get MP back.

[Brannigan]

spit2
[spit]
noun
1.a pointed rod or bar for thrusting through and holding meat that is to be cooked before or over a fire.
2.any of various rods, pins, or the like used for particular purposes.
3.a narrow point of land projecting into the water.
4.a long, narrow shoal extending from the shore.

verb (used with object), spitted, spitting.
5.to pierce, stab, or transfix, as with a spit; impale on something sharp.
6.to thrust a spit into or through.

Spit as in a spit roast. You're butchering them like meat. Cut then stab.

Also Carve and Spit is fine. It's probably dark knight's best designed ability since the non-dark arts form of it does something that the DA form doesn't. It's not useful often if you're playing correctly but occasionally it comes into play.

[Cynric]

spit2
[spit]
noun
1.a pointed rod or bar for thrusting through and holding meat that is to be cooked before or over a fire.
2.any of various rods, pins, or the like used for particular purposes.
3.a narrow point of land projecting into the water.
4.a long, narrow shoal extending from the shore.

verb (used with object), spitted, spitting.
5.to pierce, stab, or transfix, as with a spit; impale on something sharp.
6.to thrust a spit into or through.

Spit as in a spit roast. You're butchering them like meat. Cut then stab.

Also Carve and Spit is fine. It's probably dark knight's best designed ability since the non-dark arts form of it does something that the DA form doesn't. It's not useful often if you're playing correctly but occasionally it comes into play.

but we never impale or stab them D: where is the spitting?!