Randomized Dungeons :)

[dinnertime]

Imagine running a dungeon to find a version of Titan, I think if they did something like that, they could update the content to the current level cap, and give them a reason to update older content and bosses. I just wouldn't know what the lore behind it would be.

They could just make the beastmen tribe area the dungeon, honestly.

[m3eansean]

1.0 dungeons had some random elements at times.

They were removed. Players dont like random elements as a whole (despite what you read on the forums) and the Dev's when 2.0 was released were very focused on making the game "accessible" and used the term theme park several times in their description of how they wanted to frame the game. They said this was done to combat the evolving mobile gaming market, which is eating into a large chunk of their playerbase.

The idea is you line up for the ride you want, go through the expected course and get some tickets for a prize at the end. That is the core of this game, and it will not vary from this course unless and until it is is very dire financial straights.

Take it or leave it, the theme park weekly tome grind works for them right now financially and keeps players logging in. This is a safe MMO, they do the tried and true. Being the champions of accessible and relatively easy content that they are, I highly doubt they will release anything with random elements any time soon.

[Kurogaea]

...

You do realize no one likes this theme park idea right? They love the story, gameplay and immersion. What immersion can you get from walking down hallways we seen before with just different themes and enemies and repeating them over and over with no diversity for some item that would be most likely useless in the next 5 patches? Random dungeons would fix that.

Not to mention, this mode is optional. If people don't have time for it, then do if on your off day. Shouldn't bother you that someone else is doing less grindy content and your not. Its all about options in MMOs.

Also adding, Savage Random Dungeon. Holy crap. : O

[Nektulos-Tuor]

You do realize no one likes this theme park idea right? They love the story, gameplay and immersion. What immersion can you get from walking down hallways we seen before with just different themes and enemies and repeating them over and over with no diversity for some item that would be most likely useless in the next 5 patches? Random dungeons would fix that.

Not to mention, this mode is optional. If people don't have time for it, then do if on your off day. Shouldn't bother you that someone else is doing less grindy content and your not. Its all about options in MMOs.

Also adding, Savage Random Dungeon. Holy crap. : O

Exactly. That is the problem with immersion. FFXIV / WOW Dungeons were meant to be amazing the first time you see them, very good and fun the first time you do them. However, after you beat them?

All the color is gone, and the more you do them you realize that ... well honestly.

- Trash is pointless, all it does is make the dungeons longer.
- Monsters have bloated amounts of health, even in Alexander Savage and Raids.
- It all is the same repetitive nonsense after you do it once.

Monsters in dungeons for example (trash) barely hits you for anything, but takes forever to kill. Its all a big grind.



However, if you've ever played Everquest 2 for example in the TSO-(+4 expansions era) you will notice that they fix this by doing several things:

- Trash is as hard, if not harder then the bosses.
- Bosses do not have bloated HP, they are just very hard to kill.
- Trash drops loot/masters (masters allow you to "master" a skill you have.)
- Trash hits VERY hard, but dies very quick. This means you can't/can pull rooms (Depending on the skill of your party, but they are hitting a LOT harder), but it doesn't feel "grindy"

Dungeons were not designed to be cool the first time you go through them. They were designed to be ran 500+ times and still be fun the 501st.



Let us take one of the new dungeons recently designed for Heaven's ward. Sohm AI. I do this dungeon a lot, I've done it 30 times just for a sword for appearance I want. You want to know how fun doing it over and over it? ITS NOT. The monsters have so much health it literally feels like its giving me carpel tunnel and they BARELY hurt me. The trash is POINTLESS and they put walls over everything so we can't skip anything. THIS is also what WoW did.

Everquest HAS no walls, not even for boss rooms.


FFXIV feels like currently its: "Play our Way, or Don't Play." that isn't a good way to make dungeons. The novelty wears off eventually.

So, whilst I can say the dungeons are well designed for story, gameplay, mechanics. They are poorly designed to repetition, and fun. Once you do them once, you never want to do them EVER again. That isn't good.

[xJimmehx]

Snip

Agree entirely with this.

[Dyvid]

Exactly. That is the problem with immersion. FFXIV / WOW Dungeons were meant to be amazing the first time you see them, very good and fun the first time you do them. However, after you beat them?

All the color is gone, and the more you do them you realize that ... well honestly.

- Trash is pointless, all it does is make the dungeons longer.
- Monsters have bloated amounts of health, even in Alexander Savage and Raids.
- It all is the same repetitive nonsense after you do it once.

Monsters in dungeons for example (trash) barely hits you for anything, but takes forever to kill. Its all a big grind.



However, if you've ever played Everquest 2 for example in the TSO-(+4 expansions era) you will notice that they fix this by doing several things:

- Trash is as hard, if not harder then the bosses.
- Bosses do not have bloated HP, they are just very hard to kill.
- Trash drops loot/masters (masters allow you to "master" a skill you have.)
- Trash hits VERY hard, but dies very quick. This means you can't/can pull rooms (Depending on the skill of your party, but they are hitting a LOT harder), but it doesn't feel "grindy"

Dungeons were not designed to be cool the first time you go through them. They were designed to be ran 500+ times and still be fun the 501st.



Let us take one of the new dungeons recently designed for Heaven's ward. Sohm AI. I do this dungeon a lot, I've done it 30 times just for a sword for appearance I want. You want to know how fun doing it over and over it? ITS NOT. The monsters have so much health it literally feels like its giving me carpel tunnel and they BARELY hurt me. The trash is POINTLESS and they put walls over everything so we can't skip anything. THIS is also what WoW did.

Everquest HAS no walls, not even for boss rooms.


FFXIV feels like currently its: "Play our Way, or Don't Play." that isn't a good way to make dungeons. The novelty wears off eventually.

So, whilst I can say the dungeons are well designed for story, gameplay, mechanics. They are poorly designed to repetition, and fun. Once you do them once, you never want to do them EVER again. That isn't good.

Hmm.... Basically you are comparing different designs but equal values. With a mob has bloated HP or high defense it still means the same amount of time to kill. Also older MMO have heavier gear stat requirements where as FFXIV is about learning mechanics. Not saying one is better than other and agree FFXIV is slipping in appeal as time goes on. I'm not a fan of speed runs myself but SE has made dungeons so easy that the community decided to challenge itself. Trash mobs are boring and SE needs to make them more challenging.

I made a post about a new randomize dungeon design that stays true to FF, but it couldn't be done to current dungeon roulette. People are always looking for the easy win and would rather quit and wait 30mins then try. Look at trial roulette and Steps of Faith, you still see people just drop rather than try so adding random dungeons to expert roulette people would rather quit and wait 30mins for an easier dungeon.

Dungeons need work and more diverse design. I do believe making a new 8-man Dungeon class would help with the dungeon rut. Also adding optional boss fights, tomes/minions/TT cards randomly drop from treasure chest, more area mechanics rather than just boss would improve interest.

I will say Labyrinth of the Ancients was my favorite run the entire game because of it's unique design.