Why vertical progression is poorly implemented

[Ibi]

Do we really want to live in an immediate gratification society where if you run it enough times the game just gives it to you? That seems rather lazy to me.

I think the practice of having to "run it enough times" is pretty much the antithesis of "immediate gratification".

Personally, I think it's completely reasonable that of the amount of effort and time that a person invests into a particular activity should have an influence on the results, beyond simply providing more opportunities to roll the dice and hope the result is in their favor.

I'm not sure it's entirely relevant to this discussion though, since token or currency systems that provide rewards after completing content a requisite number of times can be present in both horizontal and vertical progression systems. Likewise they can be absent from both.

[Kindread]

I think the practice of having to "run it enough times" is pretty much the antithesis of "immediate gratification".

How is it the opposite? I've been in groups with people that were on the 50th or so attempt to get an item, and when it finally dropped for them it made the game. They will remember that moment for years, but having a token type system in place is catering to those that need that immediate gratification.

There is NOTHING wrong with simply not getting the item. This game does updates enough that it will not break your characters if those leggings or whatever, never drop for you, and it still puts the pressure on you to log in everyday, which is what the system is based on.

You are correct though, this is getting off topic, a token system (for good or bad) could be related to both progression systems.

[Velhart]

How is it the opposite? I've been in groups with people that were on the 50th or so attempt to get an item, and when it finally dropped for them it made the game. They will remember that moment for years, but having a token type system in place is catering to those that need that immediate gratification.

There is NOTHING wrong with simply not getting the item. This game does updates enough that it will not break your characters if those leggings or whatever, never drop for you, and it still puts the pressure on you to log in everyday, which is what the system is based on.

You are correct though, this is getting off topic, a token system (for good or bad) could be related to both progression systems.

So by your logic, its fair that someone gets a really nice item the first week, but I am on my 50th run and it still has not dropped for myself or someone else? This is a terrible RNG system we need to work away from, not embrace it.

[Ibi]

How is it the opposite?

"run it enough times": This would involve completing the content some fixed number of times. Take Savage, for example, where you need to clear a floor between four and eight times, at a rate of once per week, in order to have sufficient tokens to buy a single piece of gear. Best case scenario, you're talking four weeks.

"immediate gratification": Synonyms for immediate include instant, instantaneous, swift, prompt, fast, speedy, rapid, brisk, quick, expeditious. I don't think even the best case scenario of four weeks is described by any of those words.

I've been in groups with people that were on the 50th or so attempt to get an item, and when it finally dropped for them it made the game. They will remember that moment for years, but having a token type system in place is catering to those that need that immediate gratification.

I've been in groups with people that were on the 50th or so attempt to get an item, and when it finally dropped for them they were so sick of running the content (which had become trivial and uninteresting at that point because of how many times they'd seen it) that they never wanted to run it ever again, and it sucked all the joy out of what should have been an awesome moment.

So... your mileage may vary?