Why vertical progression is poorly implemented

[Alahra]

Although this is generally true, there were definitely instances of gear being introduced that could obsolete a lot of older stuff even when the level cap wasn't increasing.

Oh, of course. ToAU in particular introduced a lot of power-house items that lasted for a good long time, and they were also a lot better than anything that had come before. Thaumas Coat was BiS for NIN for TP even after they introduced item levels and only got dethroned within the last year or so by a couple of the upgraded AF/Relic pieces depending on your available magic Haste (and if you've got all sources of Haste I'm pretty sure it's *still* the best).

[Dzian]

Although this is generally true, there were definitely instances of gear being introduced that could obsolete a lot of older stuff even when the level cap wasn't increasing. In particular, events like Limbus and Salvage added new sets that you would completely replace older items (but due to FFXI's ability to change equipment in combat though, it's rare that you'd ever replace all your gear for a particular slot with any upgrade).

Gear swaps are something i'd happily never see again, 3 -4 gear sets per ability was horrendous.

However Even when a piece of gear did completely replace another piece of gear, in most cases it was individual items and not entire sets that were replaced. I think that makes a big difference.

If you spent months or even a year gearing up your character and then got a new pair of pants that completely replaced your current pants it wasn't so bad as the rest of the gear you spent so much time building up was still valuable. so the new pair of pants is an improvement to your whole build and not a complete replacement.

The issue with vertical progression as it is in xiv currently is you spend months building up your gear, only for your whole build to be made obsolete a month later. it basically makes the entire time you spent building up your gear feel worthless and wasted. and this is why people are getting peeved at the endless treadmill.

Gear needs to be valuable, lasting and genuinely worth getting.

[Iagainsti]

Gear needs to be valuable, lasting and genuinely worth getting.

[Ibi]

Gear swaps are something i'd happily never see again, 3 -4 gear sets per ability was horrendous.

It was fun if you're someone who really enjoyed trying to min-max every possible aspect of your character.

Oh, and had Windower properly configured so that you could actually take advantage of that gear without having to press three different macros every time you wanted to use a job ability.

However Even when a piece of gear did completely replace another piece of gear, in most cases it was individual items and not entire sets that were replaced. I think that makes a big difference.

If you spent months or even a year gearing up your character and then got a new pair of pants that completely replaced your current pants it wasn't so bad as the rest of the gear you spent so much time building up was still valuable. so the new pair of pants is an improvement to your whole build and not a complete replacement.

Although they didn't gear that would obsolete an entire set, it certainly happened. Homam from Proto-Omega replaced the TP sets for the classes that could wear it. Usukane from Salvage did the same.

I think the biggest difference is that because the game was built around horizontal progression, gear was always incredibly difficult to actually acquire rapidly unless you were incredibly fortunate. It didn't matter so much that your current gear was obsolete over night, because it was quite possible that it was going to take you a year and a half to actually acquire the new gear.

The issue with vertical progression as it is in xiv currently is you spend months building up your gear, only for your whole build to be made obsolete a month later. it basically makes the entire time you spent building up your gear feel worthless and wasted. and this is why people are getting peeved at the endless treadmill.

Gear needs to be valuable, lasting and genuinely worth getting.

The counterpoint being that the issue with horizontal progression is that in order to make gear valuable, lasting, and genuinely worth getting, you generally have to slow the rate of acquisition to a crawl.

If Savage used an FFXI approach to loot, you'd either only get a drop one in every four or five runs, or you'd have to re-clear to A4S at a rate of one floor a week, and only that would actually provide any items.

[Kindread]

When someone says "Horizontal Gear Progression" my face twitches and I cannot help but think of the staleness of GW2 end game .. or lack there of.

Vertical Gear Progression has been a staple to these types of games. We all remember a time when we ran a dungeon/raid 50-100 times and only saw it drop once to have that PUG member need roll. It's part of the game and creates memories. I am sorry if you are frustrated, I was too when it was happening to me in other games, but it's just how the RNG system works. In the meantime there are quite a few other AAA games out there that do not have this type of system. However I am still finding enjoyment in this one, so I will stick around.

Do we really want to live in an immediate gratification society where if you run it enough times the game just gives it to you? That seems rather lazy to me.

[myahele]

It really doesn't help however other patch is a catch up patch. People just need to wait until next patch until they could get the upgrade items from hunts, etc. rather than do raids.

Those who raid will have the best gear for a few months (3 months) until everyone else can just do hunts to get a similar ilv gear equivalent, sometimes even better than raid drops. But only assuming they were even able to get their clears.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Do we really want to live in an immediate gratification society where if you run it enough times the game just gives it to you? That seems rather lazy to me.

Yes, because if something doesn't drop for me after a while, I'll just leave it behind and do something else. I dunno about you, but I don't like wasting time in something that yielded nothing in return after so many times.

[Jpec07]

I dunno about you guys, but I'm in it to look good and play dress up. To that end, farming dungeons and raids and tomestones for gear sets will always be worthwhile.

Maybe my attitude will change in 3.2 if I can find a static, but for now, the sheer beauty of the gear is enough to keep me running content.

[Iagainsti]

I dunno about you guys, but I'm in it to look good and play dress up. To that end, farming dungeons and raids and tomestones for gear sets will always be worthwhile.

Maybe my attitude will change in 3.2 if I can find a static, but for now, the sheer beauty of the gear is enough to keep me running content.

Glamour is the true endgame; anyone can beat any content if you and your party bang your heads against it enough times without getting discouraged; but looking good while doing it? That's Priceless.

[Starbirth]

Yes, because if something doesn't drop for me after a while, I'll just leave it behind and do something else. I dunno about you, but I don't like wasting time in something that yielded nothing in return after so many times.

It's this type of thinking that has dulled MMOs.