Ifrit Weapon Itemization

[Colino]

Sorry, weak WS doesn't counts. Doomspike is the only notable one, but still it needs mobs to be lined up. You wont hit everything when you pull tons of mobs at stronghold. Marauder is far superior in terms of total damage compare to Lancer. Yes, i have both at lv50.

Actually legsweep is pretty fantastic, so is Heavy Trammel. And getting mobs in a line is much easier than you think.

Then again it's very obvious you don't know a rat's ass about Lancer so...

[Zdenka]

You said LNC dont have AoE's at all, i proved you wrong.

Now you are going from, LNC not having AoE's to MRD > LNC? Make up your mind. I Never said that LNC AoE's are decent, i just stated that they exist unlike you said they dont.

In fact MRD can pull out more DPS if you have Mobs clustered around you, but thats about it. Go on a single Target and LNC will out-DD every MRD easy, if you know how to play it. But thats far away from the original Topic right now, so i will stop at this point.

I think he knows LNC have AoE WS (Well the only real AE is Heavy Trammel, the rest are directional), but I think it was in reference that none of them are worth it when compared to MRD's Storm's Path. As I posted earlier in the thread, MRD sitting and spamming Storms Path in an AoE environment triples LNC's output.

That isn't solely because Storm's Path is -that- much stronger (well it is) its also because MRD can go 0-3000% TP in one swing, keen flurry, and pop off 2x instantly while the LNC is still sitting at 900% TP.


Also saying all LNC > MRD is very naive and shows that you haven't played MRD at all post patch. MRD can do identical single target DPS that LNC's can do, it just takes more work than using 1 WS button. Here lets compare numbers:

Buffed Maim vs Doomspike = identical damage
Unbuffed Storms Path vs Unbuffed DS/Chaos Thrust = identical damage per TP usage
MRD normal hits do 30-50 on Ifrit, while LNC's do 15ish.
LNC gains TP slightly quicker due to better invigorate and speed surge

All other facets of a fight past that are the same for all classes.

So its a wash, they do identical damage if you know how to play it right. I'm usually the top DPS on ifrit as LNC (thats with killing him, so other ppl aren't slacking) and when I swap to MRD I still am the top DPS. Its all about knowing how to play the game really.

PGL is also very similar but could never be the top because it lacks a good filler WS when Victimize is down, so it lags behind but not by a whole lot. ARC is just lol... now tho.

[Nero]

@Zdenka

I actually was about to reply to that pile of crap you posted there, but you dont even understand the Basics on DPS, so i will prolly waste my Time. I figured it here:

MRD normal hits do 30-50 on Ifrit, while LNC's do 15ish.

Pics of the 50 per Hit, or it didnt happen.

Have a nice day.

[Physic]

I think he knows LNC have AoE WS (Well the only real AE is Heavy Trammel, the rest are directional), but I think it was in reference that none of them are worth it when compared to MRD's Storm's Path. As I posted earlier in the thread, MRD sitting and spamming Storms Path in an AoE environment triples LNC's output.

That isn't solely because Storm's Path is -that- much stronger (well it is) its also because MRD can go 0-3000% TP in one swing, keen flurry, and pop off 2x instantly while the LNC is still sitting at 900% TP.


Also saying all LNC > MRD is very naive and shows that you haven't played MRD at all post patch. MRD can do identical single target DPS that LNC's can do, it just takes more work than using 1 WS button. Here lets compare numbers:

Buffed Maim vs Doomspike = identical damage
Unbuffed Storms Path vs Unbuffed DS/Chaos Thrust = identical damage per TP usage
MRD normal hits do 30-50 on Ifrit, while LNC's do 15ish.
LNC gains TP slightly quicker due to better invigorate and speed surge

All other facets of a fight past that are the same for all classes.

So its a wash, they do identical damage if you know how to play it right. I'm usually the top DPS on ifrit as LNC (thats with killing him, so other ppl aren't slacking) and when I swap to MRD I still am the top DPS. Its all about knowing how to play the game really.

PGL is also very similar but could never be the top because it lacks a good filler WS when Victimize is down, so it lags behind but not by a whole lot. ARC is just lol... now tho.

lnc tp gain is better than marauder, unless its has a cone of mobs on it. more invigorate, faster base weapon, speed surge, etc. I would honestly say lnc is the best DD right now, though i have heard on single target pug parses similar. but ehh.

[Neptune]

All great points. I wonder if the people that designed the mage weapons even play. YOSHI-P I THOUGHT YOU WERE A CASTER!!!

[Zdenka]

lnc tp gain is better than marauder, unless its has a cone of mobs on it. more invigorate, faster base weapon, speed surge, etc. I would honestly say lnc is the best DD right now, though i have heard on single target pug parses similar. but ehh.

On Ifrit fight, regen of TP isn't as critical as you might think since many times you are stuck waiting to see what effect Ifrit will do and you'll be sitting at 3000 TP. MRD also gains 70-100 more TP per hit than LNC so TP generation off normal hits (even through speed surge) isn't a very large gap between the 2.

I'll see if I can go on MRD tonight to make screenshots but really its not hard to test yourself instead of just assuming everything. MRD single target DPS is really nearly identical to LNC, though I usually just go LNC anyways because of quicker Comrade to Arms cooldown which benefits everyone. MRD would have Maim to assist the party too, but land rate of the debuff still sorta stinks.

PGL is the only one really left out because it doesn't have any decent WS to use between Victimizes, but it still doesn't lag behind by more than 10-15%.

[Zdenka]

Parser:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/217/parser20111020061704.png/

I'm there 3rd as MRD at 11,000.

The LNC on top is using Ifrit's Harpoon so theres not really any way I'd be able to catch him unless I got an Ifrit's Axe. I also missed 2 blindsides so my damage is ~500 less than it should be. Also you must remember my Maim increased their damage also so if I wasn't there as MRD their numbers would be less as well. Beat one and nearly tied the 2nd place LNC (if ifrit wasn't tanked so wonky that time I probably would have) so as I said, MRD does similar damage to LNC's at this point in time.

I was able to get one screenshot of a decent hit in first phase, after that I didn't pay attention



But overall Ifrit was running around all over this attempt so positioning was sorta bleh but pretty much shows MRD is on par to LNC with similar gear. The DPS classes aren't that much different right now, all you really swap out is WS's (maim, doomspike, victimize) and a backup WS (storms path, chaos thrust, ??? idk PGL nothing seems good)

[Alhanelem]

This isn't about being closed minded, how about they fix the classes that you know actually use magic first before making them worthwhile on non mage classes.

Blue and red mage has nothing to do with this, seeing as they don't exist in this game and if they do plan to add those job later down the road they will no doubt retune certain spells.

You're not getting it at all. Did I say blue and red mage existed in this game? it was an example to make a point. You have a closed minded, dated perspective of what you feel a magic user should be. The action system in FFXIV was specifically designed for freedom and flexibility to allow people to adapt any class to a particular play style. If I want to stand near the enemy I'm fighting, with a shield and using my (formerly magical) attacks and casting spells and debuffing and everything, that's my perogative. Up until 1.19, all of THM/CON's skills were viable and useful at least in specific situations. Now a good third or so of THM's skills alone have been nerfed into oblivion by the changes made to wands and staves. Rather than being removed or ignored, these skills need to be fixed so that players are not punished for their efforts at creativity.

FFXIV was the first MMO I'd ever seen that didn't lock you into standard cookie cutter roles by class. I suppose WoW had that to a slight extent with certain classes having talent tress that can significantly change their roles.

At least right now the action freedom still exists, and it's the job system that will specialize players into roles, while the class actions can still be mixed. That shouldn't be thrown away, it should be harnessed. The broken actions need to be fixed.

[Jinko]

You're not getting it at all. Did I say blue and red mage existed in this game? it was an example to make a point. You have a closed minded, dated perspective of what you feel a magic user should be. The action system in FFXIV was specifically designed for freedom and flexibility to allow people to adapt any class to a particular play style. If I want to stand near the enemy I'm fighting, with a shield and using my (formerly magical) attacks and casting spells and debuffing and everything, that's my perogative. Up until 1.19, all of THM/CON's skills were viable and useful at least in specific situations. Now a good third or so of THM's skills alone have been nerfed into oblivion by the changes made to wands and staves. Rather than being removed or ignored, these skills need to be fixed so that players are not punished for their efforts at creativity.

FFXIV was the first MMO I'd ever seen that didn't lock you into standard cookie cutter roles by class. I suppose WoW had that to a slight extent with certain classes having talent tress that can significantly change their roles.

At least right now the action freedom still exists, and it's the job system that will specialize players into roles, while the class actions can still be mixed. That shouldn't be thrown away, it should be harnessed. The broken actions need to be fixed.

I orginally asked for them to put mage weapons back to the way they were (Magic potency instead of phycial dmg) and here you are saying that the reason the spells are nerfed on melee is due to the change they made to the mage weapons in 1.19.....(although this is clearly not the case) but seeing as you think that what the hell are you argueing with me about ?

[Unowned]

I see the same issue with making HQ mage weapons, make them increase stats/magic atk power or healing magic power.