If Warriors of Light appear on the eve of every Umbral Era...

[Chewy2nd]

Then perhaps Warriors of Darkness appear on the eve of each Astral era? Maybe they themselves are guided by the Ascians (Dark Scions) and Zodiark (Dark Hydaelyn), it'd be interesting duality.

[myahele]

Makes sense. Despite them saying we're in an astral era it still doesn't feel like it to me. So it would make sense if the WoD are appearing now since it's truly shifting into an astral age

[Kaiser-Ace]

Well, for all accounts this is the first time a Warrior of Darkness has appeared as far as anyone knows. Even Elidibus refures to them like an Ace in The Hole.

This is actually the first time the Ascians are starting to lose. Up till now the Warriors of Light have simply been desperatly preserving the status quo and hopeing not to lose ground.

(Not to mention the WoDs are Ex-WoLs)

So I honestly think Darklander and crew are the first and possibly only WoDs.

[Enkidoh]

I agree with Kaiser - Elidibus's comments definitely suggest they were only anointed as such as a last desperate gamble after all the Ascians' previous attempts to stop us had failed - the fact we now have the power to kill them for good (again apparently for the first time in history) rather than simply driving them out of their host only made Elidibus's situation even more desperate.

Thus it doesn't seem the Warriors of Darkness are simply an automatic counterbalance to the Warriors of Light, as I think if this was the case we would have encountered them far sooner. But we know so little about them at this point so it's best to take anything with a grain of salt.

[Belhi]

Yeah, Hydaelyn has been losing for a long time by this point. The Ascians have been fighting a war of attrition on her following a decidedly exact pattern with the whole calamity pattern. Honestly it feels like we are Hydaelyn's last major play. She is a lot weaker than she has been in the past and she has put a lot of her remaining strength into keeping us alive from thing like Ultima.

I suspect the Ascians until recently only saw us as just another bump on the road. They would have dealt with plenty of WoL before and frankly they seemed just as content to use us to their advantage as kill us. The thing is we have slipped their control and they are realising we are more than they bargained for and rather being something that can be used we are an actual threat. Hell, even when Nabriales bought it, they seemed to be more intent on blaming him for jumping the gun and being foolish than seeing the threat the WoL represented. Infact in the SMN questline one of the lesser ascians pretty much comes right out and says 'you were useful before to instigate conflict with the beast tribes but now your growing too powerful to be manageable'.

[Kallera]

I think a duality would serve the story better. But it feels like that is not where the story (or at least it telling) wants to go. Maybe its playing its cards close to its chest, but more and more Derplander is looking like a Goldar at best.

Of course, seeing as how we only got introductions of Derplander, I'm hoping he takes an interesting turn.

[Belhi]

I think there was plenty in HW, particularly in the Job quests that seemed to imply that Darkness wasn't inherently evil. Hell, DRK players are apparently literally channelling darkness.

I think however that if not Zodiark, then the Ascians at least, don't fully represent the darkness in balance. I would actually argue that you could point to the Archbishop and this path as being heavily leaning towards the Light since his intention seemed to be enforcing order and peace through force upon the world and purging anything that didn't sit right. I think at the end of the day the issue we will face will be one of balance but that what the Ascians want isn't balance but just darkness.

This is what I think the WoD is mistaking. I suspect he sees the goals of the Ascians to be finding balance and at least the core black robed Ascians don't seem to be interested so much in balance as the death of the Light. While I don't think we will necessarily be outright allies in the end with the WoD, I do seeing them becoming a kind of associate representing the other side of the balance spectrum.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Personally, I've never seen duality as a theme. It seems to almost be a Mortals vs Immortals kind of thing.

What has been hit on time and again thematically is that Morality is Grey. The Ascians are doing what is right by them to revive Zodiark. We are foiling them at every turn on behalf of Hydaelyn and finally gaining ground for the first time in eons to the point where WE are starting to win the tug of war.

The beast tribes are all divided into at least two factions, one seeking peace and the other war, and the primals only complicat that matter and get us involved. And Garlemauld is doing its damnedest to stop the spread of "The Primal Scourge" and immulate the fallen Allagan Empire of 5000 years past.

Again, I've yet to see anything on duality and a lot more leaning towards the "The Gods are Evil" troupe that final fantasy loves to use. Because we definitely know Zodiark is not good for us, The Ascians insist that Hydaelyn is using us (Not that they aren't) and truth be told we know next to nothing about The Twelve, Hydaelyn, or Zodiark. It wasn't till recently that we learned the Truth of primals and even that still has lose ends to cover.

So it seems we may be going the FF13 route where The Gods are our real enemies and Light and Darkness combine to free ALL life from their influence. (Thus making Gaius' words in Pretorium a foreshadowed truth)

[Cilia]

I think there was plenty in HW, particularly in the Job quests that seemed to imply that Darkness wasn't inherently evil. Hell, DRK players are apparently literally channelling darkness.

I think however that if not Zodiark, then the Ascians at least, don't fully represent the darkness in balance. I would actually argue that you could point to the Archbishop and this path as being heavily leaning towards the Light since his intention seemed to be enforcing order and peace through force upon the world and purging anything that didn't sit right. I think at the end of the day the issue we will face will be one of balance but that what the Ascians want isn't balance but just darkness.

This is what I think the WoD is mistaking. I suspect he sees the goals of the Ascians to be finding balance and at least the core black robed Ascians don't seem to be interested so much in balance as the death of the Light. While I don't think we will necessarily be outright allies in the end with the WoD, I do seeing them becoming a kind of associate representing the other side of the balance spectrum.

To clarify the first bit: Dark Knights use their darkness (and that's not even the whole story), not the Darkness.

As for the Ascians: lots of people interpreted Elidibus' words in the stinger of 3.0 to be "we want balance." They don't. They want darkness, it just so happens that our light is tipping the balance in a way that doesn't favor their goals. That's why Elidibby pulled out the Warrior(s) of Darkness.

[Alisa180]

Like others had said, the WoD appears to be a new thing.

Something interesting to note, though. While WoLs always appear on the eve of a new Umbral Era, the WoL we play seems to be unique in that they appeared to usher in a new *Astral* Era. Is a WoL appearing during an Umbral Era with precedent? Not to mention, we saw a bunch of other people, including ourselves, awaken to the Echo (in that vision at the start of the game). Krile during 3.1 told us the Echo normally starts appearing as an Umbral Era approaches. But we know for a fact that others have gained it during an Umbral Era, not before.

This suggests a break in the pattern on Hydaelyn's part.