How about a non-support ranged dps?

[RiceisNice]

While the thinking may fall apart, its what SE is still hiding behind for their explanation. I'm just letting you know what they said when they responded over the whole fiasco over WM in the first place.

IIRC, they actually have given no official reasoning for WM's inclusion, just what the purpose of it was. Which...honestly doesn't make sense because at that point, it's not buffing their dps anymore as the other jobs buffing their dps with their post-50 skills. The end result is that you have WM getting rid of the mobility aspect...and them still being lower in output.

Theoretical question, if all jobs as of right now did the same amount of damage (regardless of caster, ranged or melee), would it still be favorable to stack double, triple, or all four?

[SkyBane001]

IIRC, they actually have given no official reasoning for WM's inclusion, just what the purpose of it was. Which...honestly doesn't make sense because at that point, it's not buffing their dps anymore as the other jobs buffing their dps with their post-50 skills. The end result is that you have WM getting rid of the mobility aspect...and them still being lower in output.

Theoretical question, if all jobs as of right now did the same amount of damage (regardless of caster, ranged or melee), would it still be favorable to stack double, triple, or all four?

Not who you asked, but the honest answer is if all DPS was equal, you would stack 4 ninja. They have the best overall party support with both the slashing debuff helping tanks, and trick attack helping everyone. Rotate the CD properly among the 4 NIN to get a constant +10% damage. They can also provide regen for sustained fights, Goad still being a thing to provide the TP boost to the tank and the other NIN.

So the answer is, in a world where all damage is equal, and you don't get a LB penalty for stacking classes, go 4 NIN in DPS. Best overall support, and better overall party DPS.

[RiceisNice]

Not who you asked, but the honest answer is if all DPS was equal, you would stack 4 ninja. They have the best overall party support with both the slashing debuff helping tanks, and trick attack helping everyone. Rotate the CD properly among the 4 NIN to get a constant +10% damage. They can also provide regen for sustained fights, Goad still being a thing to provide the TP boost to the tank and the other NIN.

So the answer is, in a world where all damage is equal, and you don't get a LB penalty for stacking classes, go 4 NIN in DPS. Best overall support, and better overall party DPS.

Except, you have a warrior for slashing debuff, you have no regen for healers, no foe requiem or RoD to boost healer damage, no STR bonus for tanks, and of course the obligatory reduced LB charge. Would the increased uptime on the 10% debuff be enough to win out on foe reqiuem, the loss of STR on tanks, and the reduced LB charge?

That's also not getting into issues with positioning for mechanics like lightning storm or sluice.

[SkyBane001]

Except, you have a warrior for slashing debuff, you have no regen for healers, no foe requiem or RoD to boost healer damage, no STR bonus for tanks, and of course the obligatory reduced LB charge. Would the increased uptime on the 10% debuff be enough to win out on foe reqiuem, the loss of STR on tanks, and the reduced LB charge?

That's also not getting into issues with positioning for mechanics like lightning storm or sluice.

I assumed in your theoretical (as I stated) that we went back to no reduced lb charge, as that's the only way the theoretical even makes sense. Healer damage is less than tank damage, and really only takes off when you have actual magic DPS in the party. So really it comes down to is the extra up time on trick attack worth the loss of the strength buff, and the the extra 5% more damage from your scholar? Reduced limit break charge makes it all moot, however.

[RiceisNice]

I assumed in your theoretical (as I stated) that we went back to no reduced lb charge, as that's the only way the theoretical even makes sense. Healer damage is less than tank damage, and really only takes off when you have actual magic DPS in the party. So really it comes down to is the extra up time on trick attack worth the loss of the strength buff, and the the extra 5% more damage from your scholar? Reduced limit break charge makes it all moot, however.

I meant it in the scope of the game if all classes are equal. You're also only looking at it from a complete damage perspective and not in regards to an actual encounter. Running with all melee (not just NIN) will cramp you boss to deal with mechanics that hit players in an AoE, reducing uptime on dps.

You don't want to stack the current ranged jobs either, BRD and MCH lacks a piercing debuff from DRG's disembowel, casters won't have a BRD for foe or regen for the healers.

All pure DPS (melee) have little nuances that make them more difficult to always attain maximum potency.

TLDR: being able to avoid all mechanics while constantly DPSing, no positionals, allowing hitting for full potency would be too OP.

That's sort of the thing, they're little nuances that wouldn't amount to much to a capable player. Melee dps is very well capable of maintaining full uptime and hitting their positionals through the fight mechanics. Heck, even during 2.5, a BRD undeniably has full uptime on dps, and they are still behind that of a melee/caster dps by good amount. And well, right now you already gave them WM/GB and the damage discrepancy is still there despite not having full uptime.

[silentwindfr]

That's sort of the thing, they're little nuances that wouldn't amount to much to a capable player. Melee dps is very well capable of maintaining full uptime and hitting their positionals through the fight mechanics. Heck, even during 2.5, a BRD undeniably has full uptime on dps, and they are still behind that of a melee/caster dps by good amount. And well, right now you already gave them WM/GB and the damage discrepancy is still there despite not having full uptime.

ok let's explain simpler, since you refuse to understand....
bard and machinist, don't recquire position nor to stay at melee range for attack.... they have range and can attack from wherever they want. if they was dealing the same dps than melee, why bring melee? i means why bring one? it will be simpler to go full Range for reduce the accident chance of sweeps or aoe missed by a melee...

[RiceisNice]

ok let's explain simpler, since you refuse to understand....
bard and machinist, don't recquire position nor to stay at melee range for attack.... they have range and can attack from wherever they want. if they was dealing the same dps than melee, why bring melee? i means why bring one? it will be simpler to go full Range for reduce the accident chance of sweeps or aoe missed by a melee...

Because if you're not bringing a melee, you don't have a DRG, whom provides a crit buff for the entire party member and disembowel that buffs MCH/BRD dps. If you don't have a DRK, you're also losing out on a int debuff from MNK which does wonders for incoming damage mitigation during fights. You're also not going to get a STR buff for your tanks for that extra damage and enmity generation. And if you went all range, you're going to need some of them to stand in melee range anyway to avoid spacing issues, negating their advantage of taking from a distance while losing out on the aforementioned advantages from melee.

[Shurrikhan]

ok let's explain simpler, since you refuse to understand....
bard and machinist, don't recquire position nor to stay at melee range for attack.... they have range and can attack from wherever they want. if they was dealing the same dps than melee, why bring melee? i means why bring one? it will be simpler to go full Range for reduce the accident chance of sweeps or aoe missed by a melee...

Lesser raid buffs, no stuns, lesser armor, limited ranged space anyways. (Yes, MCH has a stun... which is also only from melee range. It might just as well be called Failed Mafia-style Execution as Suppressive Fire, going by the icon.)

Note: there was a time when ranged typically out-dpsed melee in dummy fights, and we still brought melee.