How about a non-support ranged dps?

[Ashkendor]

Make the red mage melee healer.

Melee healer + Judgement Nisi = ?
Melee healer + Searing Wind = ?

Those two mechanics alone make me think we aren't going to see a melee healer.

[Archaell]

Melee healer + Judgement Nisi = ?
Melee healer + Searing Wind = ?

Those two mechanics alone make me think we aren't going to see a melee healer.

Well it is a mage. I am sure we could overcome that with a job design.

Don't you think a healer would want to stay away from the action instead of being in melee range that could get their face smashed in?

Look at warrior priests in Warhammer etc.

[MilesSaintboroguh]

Look at warrior priests in Warhammer etc.

Ok but this isn't Warhammer etc. Unless this new healer job were to have high defense so that they don't turn into paper when dealing with melee cleaves, then you might as well turn them into tanks.

[Bourne_Endeavor]

Melee healer + Judgement Nisi = ?
Melee healer + Searing Wind = ?

Those two mechanics alone make me think we aren't going to see a melee healer.

I think if said healer had ways to mitigate those types of spells, it could work. Maybe a healer version of Hallowed Ground? Or even just something like "Reduces one melee ranged attack by 50%". If Dancer were the melee healer, then I imagine a lot of their mechanics would involve dodging. So that's another way around it.

[RiceisNice]

I think if said healer had ways to mitigate those types of spells, it could work. Maybe a healer version of Hallowed Ground? Or even just something like "Reduces one melee ranged attack by 50%". If Dancer were the melee healer, then I imagine a lot of their mechanics would involve dodging. So that's another way around it.

But, that's not what nisi or searing wind is, and something like HG wouldn't even help in tat regard. Unless you gave them an ability that gives absolute invincibility or straight up ignore boss mechanics, then that's practically OP.

[Archaell]

Ok but this isn't Warhammer etc. Unless this new healer job were to have high defense...

Of course they would need better defense, but I imagine it something alongside melee dps.

...

There could be ways around it. For example the melee healer could build up resources in melee combat while having abilities at hand when they can't be in melee. They would of course need some range healing skills. For example the red mage could be based aroud using teleports to jump between melee and range. Or they could have a "dummy" to which the negative effects would be redirected and which could soke up some damage for them.

Melee healers are not entirely impossible, it would just require some development time and I believe it would be unique playstyle from the current ones, which makes it more than appealing to at least consider.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Of course they would need better defense, but I imagine it something alongside melee dps.



There could be ways around it. For example the melee healer could build up resources in melee combat while having abilities at hand when they can't be in melee. They would of course need some range healing skills. For example the red mage could be based aroud using teleports to jump between melee and range. Or they could have a "dummy" to which the negative effects would be redirected and which could soke up some damage for them.

Melee healers are not entirely impossible, it would just require some development time and I believe it would be unique playstyle from the current ones, which makes it more than appealing to at least consider.

Melee Healers are amazing and fun. Just look at Inquisitor skills as an example:

Inquest
An augmentation placed on an ally that grants them a chance at draining power from the target with every successful spell or attack, and returning a portion of this power back to the inquisitor. This spell does not require any concentration, but can only be maintained on a single ally.

Inquisition
Forces an enemy to radiate heals to your allies. The closer your allies are to that enemy, the greater the heals.

Malevolent Diatribe
A group augmentation that heals an ally when they are attacked, and has a limited number of heals before expiring.

You could just make his healing combo into aoe healing spells around him.

He can also use a Mace or Flail as his main weapon.

Inquisitors used Plate Armor and had high physical defense, but low magical defense if I remember. They were made for healing in the thick of it and dealing a lot of damage but were not as good at healing as the other healers, but better ones (higher level) had good damage and good healing.

[RiceisNice]

Melee healers are not entirely impossible, it would just require some development time and I believe it would be unique playstyle from the current ones, which makes it more than appealing to at least consider.

It being impossible is not the problem, it's mechanics that interfere with a typical composition of 2 melees (which can get really extensive with player-targetted, and instead all you'll really get is a healer that is incredibly gimmicky), or healer exclusive mechanics such as searing winds that prevent you from healing anyone if you were limited to melee heals (or again, bottle neck you to a healer with incredibly gimmicky skills). At that point, encounters would have to be designed with that in mind and we're already limited on encounter mechanics as it is.

[Archaell]

It being impossible is not the problem, it's mechanics that interfere with a typical composition of 2 melees (which can get really extensive with player-targetted, and instead all you'll really get is a healer that is incredibly gimmicky), or healer exclusive mechanics such as searing winds that prevent you from healing anyone if you were limited to melee heals (or again, bottle neck you to a healer with incredibly gimmicky skills). At that point, encounters would have to be designed with that in mind and we're already limited on encounter mechanics as it is.

I wonder if this line of thought wasn't one of the reasons which created the MCH/BRD copy paste issue.

We are limited only by the resources, development decisions and creativity. Both mechanics and jobs can be adjusted.

[RiceisNice]

I wonder if this line of thought wasn't one of the reasons which created the MCH/BRD copy paste issue.

We are limited only by the resources, development decisions and creativity. Both mechanics and jobs can be adjusted.

There are no mechanics that directly interfere with MCH/BRD's gameplay though. In the case of healers, Searing Wind/Nisi directly conflicts with being in melee range of anyone voluntarily. It's not a good example to make. BRD/MCH feel like a copy/paste job because of them both having GB/WM, as well as MCH really having no outstanding mechanics exclusive to themselves, not what they (don't) bring to the table (compared to other roles anyway).

If MCH had an actual mechanic where it involved swapping barrels to toggle between AoE, damage:TP effiency, or timing ammo usage akin to aetherflow (or really, giving more than just two skills an additional effect in form of debuffs, DoTs or self heal) and not be an objective dps increase to be used as soon as it comes off cooldown (effectively turning it into an oGCD). They can design job gimmicks/mechanics that don't actively screw them over because of boss mechanics, looking at how DRK and AST turned out.

I don't see why having a melee healer unable to do nisi or searing wind is a big deal. Isn't the whole point of the game to play multiple jobs? Not every job has to be a good choice for every encounter like how if you have a lot of movement blm is a bad choice, etc. I personally think it would be more fun to play if you had to pick and chose party composition to play optimally rather than anything working anywhere.

If the idea is "you play the job you want for the content", then sure, it's not a problem. It does become a problem if it comes to "any job can complete any content". At that point it becomes worse than what you see with PLD and AST in savage, because using your examples, a melee healer is completely useless and SoL for something like searing wind, or really any boss mechanic that discourages stacking (thunderstorms being a generic example). Not to mention most of the gear distribution actively discourages this with job-specific weapons and gear. Of course they can design future content to accommodate that, but it'd be an incredible anchor to what they can do if they have to assume the healer has to stay with someone to be able to heal them.