How about a non-support ranged dps?

[RiceisNice]

I would like a ranged DPS that isn't focused on support and isn't a bow/gun mage. Maybe it could do weaker damage in exchange for faster speed. >x>

IT'd be nice to have a traditional physical ranged dps, and not a faux caster. It seems incredibly silly and last minute to put WM on BRD.

[m3eansean]

SE's reasoning is that if you are ranged physical you have mobility and survivability over a melee. You are not subject to directional attacks and have no risk of enemies cleaving you with attacks in melee range.

Due to this, SE balances the damage output of physical ranged by lowering the overall ceiling of damage.

There has to be an incentive for someone to play melee dps, if a ranged physical can reach dps levels of a melee and not have any directionals or risk of cleaves, then there would be no point to playing melee.

TLDR - ranged physical will always have reduced damaged output comparatively to other classes, due to "mobility" according to SE.

[Xanikk999]

SE's reasoning is that if you are ranged physical you have mobility and survivability over a melee. You are not subject to directional attacks and have no risk of enemies cleaving you with attacks in melee range.

Due to this, SE balances the damage output of physical ranged by lowering the overall ceiling of damage.

Their logic holds no ground if they don't lower all ranged dps overall output, including summoners and black mages. Even then I disagree. Ranged typically have responsibilities in boss fights melee don't at least in most MMOs. I haven't raided anything past duty finder in FFXIV so I'm not 100% sure that's the case here. In World of warcraft I have raided the highest difficulty in the last few expansions.

Can't really do anything about it though if the devs ways are set in stone.

[RiceisNice]

TLDR - ranged physical will always have reduced damaged output comparatively to other classes, due to "mobility" according to SE.

And that goes down the toilet with the introduction of WM/GB, even though it doesn't "buff" their damage anymore than the other dps classes getting "buffed" from their new post-50 skills.

There logic holds no ground if they don't lower all ranged dps overall output, including summoners and black mages. Even then I disagree. Ranged typically have responsibilities in boss fights melee don't at least in most MMOs. I haven't raided anything past duty finder in FFXIV so I'm not 100% sure that's the case here. In World of warcraft I have raided the highest difficulty in the last few expansions.

Can't really do anything about it though if the devs ways are set in stone.

Party synergy and group composition would play into role here; it's why you wouldn't stack all of one job. You get a BRD to buff magic damage and to have regen, you get a MCH for damage debuff and regen, you get DRG for disembowel, casters for additional virus and E4E, etc etc.

[Velox]

Red Mage is probably going to be the next DPS.

Given what RDM is and FFXIV sticking with the trinity system, I have a feeling RDM would end up as a tank job utilizing black magic for damage and enmity and white magic for self-healing and defense.

[myahele]

The reason why BRDs damage was too low due to it being the most mobile of all classes on top of mp/tp.

But that thinking fallsapart since BRDs (and MCH more or less) now have to cast.

[m3eansean]

The reason why BRDs damage was too low due to it being the most mobile of all classes on top of mp/tp.

But that thinking fallsapart since BRDs (and MCH more or less) now have to cast.

While the thinking may fall apart, its what SE is still hiding behind for their explanation. I'm just letting you know what they said when they responded over the whole fiasco over WM in the first place. They reduced the penalty to turn it on and off and said, see, you're still mobile. I really dont think they will let ranged dps get much higher dps levels to be honest. When 2.0 first came out, BRD was the king due to high mobility and the original RoD. Groups would stack 4 BRD's and clear things quite easily. They nerfed RoD and made it so the LB doesnt go up as fast when you stack classes due to this very reason.

[RiceisNice]

While the thinking may fall apart, its what SE is still hiding behind for their explanation. I'm just letting you know what they said when they responded over the whole fiasco over WM in the first place.

IIRC, they actually have given no official reasoning for WM's inclusion, just what the purpose of it was. Which...honestly doesn't make sense because at that point, it's not buffing their dps anymore as the other jobs buffing their dps with their post-50 skills. The end result is that you have WM getting rid of the mobility aspect...and them still being lower in output.

Theoretical question, if all jobs as of right now did the same amount of damage (regardless of caster, ranged or melee), would it still be favorable to stack double, triple, or all four?

[SkyBane001]

IIRC, they actually have given no official reasoning for WM's inclusion, just what the purpose of it was. Which...honestly doesn't make sense because at that point, it's not buffing their dps anymore as the other jobs buffing their dps with their post-50 skills. The end result is that you have WM getting rid of the mobility aspect...and them still being lower in output.

Theoretical question, if all jobs as of right now did the same amount of damage (regardless of caster, ranged or melee), would it still be favorable to stack double, triple, or all four?

Not who you asked, but the honest answer is if all DPS was equal, you would stack 4 ninja. They have the best overall party support with both the slashing debuff helping tanks, and trick attack helping everyone. Rotate the CD properly among the 4 NIN to get a constant +10% damage. They can also provide regen for sustained fights, Goad still being a thing to provide the TP boost to the tank and the other NIN.

So the answer is, in a world where all damage is equal, and you don't get a LB penalty for stacking classes, go 4 NIN in DPS. Best overall support, and better overall party DPS.

[RiceisNice]

Not who you asked, but the honest answer is if all DPS was equal, you would stack 4 ninja. They have the best overall party support with both the slashing debuff helping tanks, and trick attack helping everyone. Rotate the CD properly among the 4 NIN to get a constant +10% damage. They can also provide regen for sustained fights, Goad still being a thing to provide the TP boost to the tank and the other NIN.

So the answer is, in a world where all damage is equal, and you don't get a LB penalty for stacking classes, go 4 NIN in DPS. Best overall support, and better overall party DPS.

Except, you have a warrior for slashing debuff, you have no regen for healers, no foe requiem or RoD to boost healer damage, no STR bonus for tanks, and of course the obligatory reduced LB charge. Would the increased uptime on the 10% debuff be enough to win out on foe reqiuem, the loss of STR on tanks, and the reduced LB charge?

That's also not getting into issues with positioning for mechanics like lightning storm or sluice.