Can we please stop locking content out of DF?

[Dante_V]

I am completely impartial to this either way. I would make a PF regardless but I can understand wanting to run it on DF. Thing is if your hours are awkward enough that a PF won't fill then it's also likely a df queue won't either in any reasonable amount of time. (Supposing you've actually tried putting up a PF of course)

[jssanderson747]

tl;dr- gear checks are significantly above the item level norms upon release (norm for savage release was about il 182-190 while AS3 comfortably requires il 200-210)

I believe across the board (maybe excluding Shiva ex), at the time these fights have released, the gear checks have been such that while highly organized or geared statics/pugs can succeed in the fights, they wouldn't function in a df setting on release. I guess as a recent example, Turns 10-13 of the binding coil came out when the gear norm was il 110. Once they were released into the df, the minimum gear requirement for T13 was il 123. To put this into perspective, most players were unable to obtain il 130 gear until patch 2.5, 4 months after release of 2.4. The point of these fights being 'locked out' of the duty finder, is to challenge players who will actually take it seriously and work together for extended periods of time.

[FeliAiko]

The Extremes require comparatively less coordination/teamwork/DPS/mechanics compared to Savage. That's why they're at a lower tier to Savage in difficulty, not because they don't require anything at all. If you think mechanics like Final Liberation don't require coordination for groups to navigate through then you're either completely naive or ignorant.

You know an example of a Trial that required little of the above? Steps of Faith, and look how that turned out. Reality is, the only reason DF stuff works out in this game is due to the content being set up to be clearable with minimum effort (whether on launch or through nerfs/echo/gear). On top of all that, you get video/written guides available telling you what to do and when.

[StouterTaru]

The Extremes require comparatively less coordination/teamwork/DPS/mechanics compared to Savage. That's why they're at a lower tier to Savage in difficulty, not because they don't require anything at all. If you think mechanics like Final Liberation don't require coordination for groups to navigate through then you're either completely naive or ignorant.

And many dungeon bosses have mechanics beyond tank and spank, so should faceroll dungeons be removed from duty finder?

Like you said, there's video guides. If everyone knows the fight, handling the mechanics is just a matter of putting down waymarks and saying X do this, Y do that. 30 seconds of prep work and a few practice runs required for noobs shouldn't disqualify something from the duty finder.

[FeliAiko]

And many dungeon bosses have mechanics beyond tank and spank,

Like what? 'Attack these adds', 'remove this debuff', 'click on this object', 'run away from the orange telegraph'? Yeah, definitely on the level of Extremes right there. Also you're comparing 4 man content to 8 man, which is far different. We've had players asking for harder 4 man dungeons, that's how non-challenging on the whole they are even with mechanics.

so should faceroll dungeons be removed from duty finder?

Except it's 'faceroll dungeons' that the DF is made to accommodate in the first place. Hence why anything remotely challenging has to be nerfed (or held back long enough for people to become overgeared for) to be 'DF approved'. Even if it's Sastasha.

It has to do with Japanese Ideology for what the DF is for.

In Japan, if you sign up for the DF, you're expected to know what you should be doing for a quick and easy clear. Using it for your first time is considered very rude, as you're imposing your inexperience on a bunch of random people that would rather just get it done. The Party Finder is for making and finding groups for learning and such.

I agree with that ideology for the PF vs DF, but since people in the west would rather take the easier route, the uses for both has practically flipped from the what the developer's intend.

Exactly.

Even when the content is easy, this community is content on using DF as an avenue to make little to no effort since 'lol it's only Duty Finder, doesn't matter' yet somehow making content like Savage available to DF is going to cause enough people to suddenly take DF seriously to the level like JP players do? As if.

[StouterTaru]

Like what? 'Attack these adds', 'remove this debuff', 'click on this object', 'run away from the orange telegraph'? Yeah, definitely on the level of Extremes right there.

Oh, the extra mechanics of extremes, like 'ignore this add for 30 seconds/altogether', 'don't fall off', 'pile up/spread out'. Well not those, those are on dungeon bosses too.

The only differences are the level of gear checks, HP, and number of different attacks. Nothing in any of the fights requires hours of practice as a group and VOIP chat.

[Kat_Manx]

Doesn't matter if you think that you can't clear some content in the Duty Finder, some people obviously want to at least try. It wouldn't harm the people who do only Party Finder groups in any way, so locking it out of the Duty Finder is only illogical and dumb.

[Lethallin]

It has to do with Japanese Ideology for what the DF is for.

In Japan, if you sign up for the DF, you're expected to know what you should be doing for a quick and easy clear. Using it for your first time is considered very rude, as you're imposing your inexperience on a bunch of random people that would rather just get it done. The Party Finder is for making and finding groups for learning and such.

I agree with that ideology for the PF vs DF, but since people in the west would rather take the easier route, the uses for both has practically flipped from the what the developer's intend.

[Ossom]

I got a funny scenario for you peeps who want Savage in DF.

Say I queue with 7-8ths of my static and we carry you through the fight, and now there is no chest. See in DF you would have been placed into the group whether you wanted the no chest run or not, there is no confirmation for you to click on.

Along with that the groups that do fail repeatedly waste instance space. So if all the players were just DF failing AS1 over and over and over again, then actual statics might not even be able to get an instance reserved for them to run on time. Meaning no one would have been progressing at all.

[StouterTaru]

I got a funny scenario for you peeps who want Savage in DF.

The same scenario applies to PF.