Can we please stop locking content out of DF?

[m3eansean]

who said in the first place that we dont know we dont stand a chance, albeit, people in DF know they dont stand a chance right away, but they will learn, like in everything, given the time, who are you to tell people they dont have the right to do something because they dont stand a chance ? that is a loser attitude...didnt know there was still people like that.

What he is trying to convey is the sheer difficulty level of A3s and A4s is far beyond anything you have encountered thus far. From being in there myself, I can attest, the DF is not the place for this content right now, or even upon release. It takes WEEKS of commitment from the same 8 people to learn the phases and mechanics to begin to complete this content. It is not something which 90 minutes in a DF will be able to accomplish. Also VOIP is mandatory for these fights, no exceptions. This is why the devs are nerfing the next raid content, because it is literally too difficult in their opinion for the majority of the player base (clear percentages suggest this as well).

Lastly, when Levi was introduced, it was the first time a Primal was not added to the DF immediately, Devs were asked why and they stated that they want to provide the community an opportunity to learn and understand the encounter through the party finder function before allowing everyone to queue at will through the Duty Finder. These are deliberate actions taken by the Devs so I highly doubt they will add raid-tier content to DF upon release in the future as well.

[UBERHAXED]

I guess I can't speak for other people. I also don't know how gimped console players may be by their controllers, if that makes things much harder. I do know that for a lot of them this really is their first MMO, and many of them may not do much gaming at all, so I guess that explains the skill gap a bit.

Not at all, seeing as the game was rebuilt with using a controller in mind. Aside from the absurd idea that all players are good, the issue inherently with the DF isn't the skill or gear of the players (the entry ilvl is more than enough), but the randomized nature of the DF makes it so you'll get unfavorable party compositions, such as SCH, SCH, PLD, PLD, MCH, MCH, MCH, MCH (obviously a hyperbole, but this can happen). I can assure you though, that a large number of people I've met on the DF have problems with reading comprehension (or worse, they are stupid) and have no idea how to use their skills. But I don't think the concept of random players is a problem if we can have guaranteed party compositions (which at this point, might as well use the party finder). The fundamental difference between the two (aside from PF only including players from your server) is that you can choose the party comp.

[UBERHAXED]

What he is trying to convey is the sheer difficulty level of A3s and A4s is far beyond anything you have encountered thus far. From being in there myself, I can attest, the DF is not the place for this content right now, or even upon release. It takes WEEKS of commitment from the same 8 people to learn the phases and mechanics to begin to complete this content. It is not something which 90 minutes in a DF will be able to accomplish. Also VOIP is mandatory for these fights, no exceptions. This is why the devs are nerfing the next raid content, because it is literally too difficult in their opinion for the majority of the player base (clear percentages suggest this as well).

While I agree with most of this, required VOIP is completely wrong. In the JP servers (of which btw one of them has more AS4 clears than all of NA and EU combined) they don't use VOIP when pugging these fights. The strategies they use are just consistent so there's no need to do anything barring a couple of words before the fight in terms of communication.

[MeiUshu]

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it shouldnt matter if people succeed through DF or not, though, neither should it matter if and when some content was added or not. As far as know, Bahamut coil was added in DF and wasnt nerfed when it went there, I did go up to t7 or t8 ant remember THROUGH DF, see my point. It should simply be available to give ALL people the same opportunity to try and see ...like many said in here..DF gives the opportunity for those for wahtever reasons, cant go into a static or find people through PF to play, doesnt mean you MUST succeed, as stated we do know we cant succeed right away, but doesnt mean that in the long run a DFer WONT succeed, in teh long run, more and more people will be progressing throught DF (of those that use DF of course) and will get together eventually to pass it. It may take weeks, months, and more months, but at least we can try as opposed to today that we cannot and we are deliberatedly excluded from something when there is a possibility to allow ALL to try it.

[FeliAiko]

Many of the Turns in Coil underwent nerfs and adjustments before being put into Duty Finder. That's before you include the addition of Echo, and the fact a lot of players would've been overgeared by the time the content became DF available. That's a far different scenario than throwing a random composition of freshly undergeared, inexperienced players into content designed for teamwork and optimisation, among other things.

[vp_cmc]

As far as know, Bahamut coil was added in DF and wasnt nerfed when it went there, I did go up to t7 or t8 ant remember THROUGH DF, see my point.

When it was just added, a lot of experienced people were there just for giggles, so you had a fair chance to have a good party there. After that is was nerfed to the ground.

Fcob is currently in DF too, but it is with echo, and it is a major difference. Try t13 without echo and without war, sch and mnk in group (for example, you have 2 pld, 2 whm, etc). You just won't survive gigaflare there because party doesn't have mitigations. 20% echo fixes this. Same will be with a3s - you won't survive cascades in some parties until they introduce echo (a4s - mortal revolution after 4-th leg).

[Undeadfire]

(a4s - mortal revolution after 4-th leg).

Don't forget the major DPS check it has. Have to Down 2 legs before the 4th quarantine and the 3rd requires heavy DPS on every job in the group. The fight normally cannot be defeated without 2 melees.

Hell, I'll be honest, even the best groups around even have trouble 1 shotting A3s/A4s, it's seriously that difficult. It may look easy on video, but once you try it, you'll see why.

[MeiUshu]

they choosed to be there, nobody forced them to...they had a choice, too..as they will have if savag(anything today exists) was added to DF, dont you agree ?.this being said, it doesnt remove the fact that anything can be added in DF irrelevant if the content CAN or CANNOT be cleared in DF according to the mass populace...simply put, the hardcore would scream to the crime if a DF would make it where they would (not saying is a case but the possibility exists) still struggle..eh?. not mention that a DFer would get a gaer/weapon whatever is in there through DF and it would be considered a crime..that is the real reasons why people are against to have it in DF.. not anything else...there are no reasons whatsoever to not put it there. For coil, though as far as I remember, it wasnt nerfed when put in there, at least not right away...but it went nerfed rather fast right when added, but in this I may be mistaken the timings ...

Still stands, in DF anything can be put, it wont bother anyone as it has never bothered anyone other then eletits and jealous people, seen that people can choose what they want to do...Again AS OPPOSED AS TODAY that those that cant commit to a static are left with no options, PF is not one and is no different then DF group either since you would be matched up with anoymous constantly...right ? and if you have friends that play with you then is more like a static then a pf group through add on your world. Just me though ....aynway no point in continuing to argue with people that cant even consider that DF is there to help people find other players to match up and not anything else....just like PF is but through a larger scale then PF is, dont you all agree on this. Not to mention that get a group via PF learning party is just a headache, people cant work for something either ways...lol at least DF would allow for a faster refill

[Ashkendor]

Also I'm not "doing" Alex and Void Ark, I did them, got bored, and now I'm done with them. I just want to move on to the next step up whatever it is. The problem being that according to people here, that step doesn't actually follow in order as you would expect, but rather has a 100 hour buffer of the easiest most boring stuff in the game before I have the gear and cross-class skills to meet the arbitrary requirements.

You should honestly continue to do Void Ark for the weekly Esoterics upgrade material. Just hang onto them.

DPS checks shouldn't exist anyway. They just measure gear with no regard for skill. I have yet to see a thing in this game where skill was a factor, that's why I'm so against this combat system. It feels like I'm playing a clicker game, just watching the numbers get bigger as nothing really changes.

Why would we need DPS players at all then? If there were no DPS checks, we could just clear everything in the game with 6 tanks and 2 healers. With how many survival tools that tanks have, maybe even just one healer.

Then why does it take so long to earn (both rate and cap) in only the most boring of ways? And to compound the boredom they limit the roulette for it to only 2 choices of dungeons. This feels like the kind of thing that should be giving like 100 base with a 200 first-timer bonus, uncapped, for running ravana or bismarck EX (Are those DF or not? I heard mixed things about it)

I don't really have a problem with earning Esoterics. I'm usually capped by Thursday night just by doing my daily roulettes and either some Alex normal or some PvP, whichever I feel like. The past couple of weeks I've been more focused on relic though. Don't neglect the level 60 and Trials roulette. Leveling roulette even gives 5 (though you probably want to use this to get LNC leveled).

it's not that I haven't started on it. Why does it take so long to unlock? Why are secondary classes such a grind? Obviously if I've gotten this far on my main he content my LNC is being forced to do is boring and easy as hell. He's 29/34 and it's the dullest thing to do. I've resorted to just accepting leves and letting someone else actually run them while I play Mario Maker, but those allowances run dry fairly quickly. Is there something faster?

Battlecraft leves are pretty much the slowest way to level aside from straight up mob grinding. Do your leveling roulette and guildhest roulette every day. Do the challenge log achievements for FATEs as well by doing FATEs in Coerthas Central Highlands. Try to finagle it so you get as many of the challenge log entries done on that class as you can. I mean, I've gotten 3 classes from 50-60 in the past few weeks just by doing beast tribe quests and Main Scenario Roulette every day, along with daily hunts, some random FATEs, and challenge log achievements. Poke around and see if you have any side quests that you can pick up, too.

[Undeadfire]

The point we trying to make is DF does not setup required jobs for optimal setup to down the fights. A3s/A4s requires double melee, 1 Whm, 1 Sch/Ast, 1 Brd/Mch (Yes you have must have this Job), Caster, Warrior/Drk or Warrior/Pld, 2 Drg/Mnk/Nin. There's no denying it, nor trying to find other ways. It's the only setups that stand in a chance in making the checks.

Melee DPS Clock 1200-1500
Casters Clock 1100-1400
Ranged Clock 900-1200
Tank Clock 700-900

This is to say in A3s/A4s you should be doing. In DF, 95%+ randoms that enter it do not make the optimal level of what the job can do in basically any endgame content. A lot of people would be slaughtering each other by arguments for sucking on DPS, causing a massive outrage for coming in A3s/A4s and wasting peoples time.

This is the problem of why it's a bad idea.