Can we please stop locking content out of DF?

[Callback]

Partly true, but not fully. There is a large skill gap in this game. I've personally seen people in gear 10-20 ilvls lower outDPS the higher geared person. Knowing and being able to execute your rotation, while handling mechanics, while managing cooldowns/stacks/buffs given down-times of the fight etc does take some skill.

Partially, but it's really not hard to be damn-near optimal, leaving the rest to pure stat numbers. Maybe NIN is just insanely easy, but the way the combat in this game is designed it really does feel like it just plays itself while you get to watch and give vague commands. The point-and-click combat system is incredibly simple by design. The main benefit is resistance to lag, seeing as how the system was invented back when DSL was top-of-the-line, but in exchange for that it sacrifices almost all of what would make gameplay action-oriented.

This is limited by cap to prevent people from being in 210 gear in one week. Esoterics are given in almost all end game content, more than just DF. Void Ark, Alex NM, Alex Savage, Thordan EX, Ravana EX, Bismark EX, PvP, Expert Roulette, 60 Roulette, Leveling Roulette, Trials Roulette, PvP Roulette. Heck if you do PvP Roulette (40 Eso) + Expert Roulette (75 Eso) each day, you'll be capped on Eso in 4 days. That's like 45 minutes a day, give or take.

Not for me. I tried PVP roulette once. ONCE. Queue took 50 minutes just to pop, followed by sitting in a lagfest unable to do anything and being better off just hiding in back defending than trying to do anything because the alternative was running in and getting melted at range by the bodies rubberbanding around the map so you could never get near them.

Expert I already talked about. A mere 2 dungeons get real old REAL fast., and doing that 5 days per week for 2 weeks per piece (for one single job only, HOW do they expect people to maintain multiple??) is not an appealing proposition.

What I don't get is the lockout clearly promotes elitism, in that only people with statics and of the upper elite are able to even enter - nevermind clear. It kind of goes opposite to the rest of the entire FFXIV mentality. Other than changing how the loot lockout works, I don't see why there would be a problem in having them in DF on release.

Raids work ok with a lockout, and I think putting harder content in DF with a first-clear bonus of maybe double tokens would motivate more people to do it that way, especially if it grouped as I originally recommended fitting 7 clears with 1 non-clear.

How is it that people with less gear (i.e. in July) cleared A3S and people with (obviously) more gear and available strategies in January (for example, you) have not cleared it?

Because I haven't gone in yet?

If dps checks solely measure gear, then it would be impossible to do in 6 months ago and everyone would have cleared it by September. Do you really not see the fallacy here?

I see no fallacy. As stated above, getting in is the biggest issue for most people who would otherwise destroy the content. DPS checks aren't a skill-based mechanic. It's just a measuring stick. Unless someone is intentionally trolling, being insanely lazy, or dead (the only skill-based entry on this list), there is no reason for them not to be DPSing at or near their gear's maximum output.

[Kaurie]

Partially, but it's really not hard to be damn-near optimal, leaving the rest to pure stat numbers. Maybe NIN is just insanely easy, but the way the combat in this game is designed it really does feel like it just plays itself while you get to watch and give vague commands. The point-and-click combat system is incredibly simple by design. The main benefit is resistance to lag, seeing as how the system was invented back when DSL was top-of-the-line, but in exchange for that it sacrifices almost all of what would make gameplay action-oriented.

To be honest, I don't get why you call it point-and-click. Perhaps we define this differently, but I rarely if ever point and click anything in combat. I'd be really curious to partner up with you and see if you have mastered your job as you suggest you have.

Further, I am not sure why you find it so simple. I personally find the combat much more engaging and complex than nearly all other MMO's I have tried (BnS, GW2, WoW, Tera, and smaller F2P games)

Not for me. I tried PVP roulette once. ONCE. Queue took 50 minutes just to pop, followed by sitting in a lagfest unable to do anything and being better off just hiding in back defending than trying to do anything because the alternative was running in and getting melted at range by the bodies rubberbanding around the map so you could never get near them.

Expert I already talked about. A mere 2 dungeons get real old REAL fast., and doing that 5 days per week for 2 weeks per piece (for one single job only, HOW do they expect people to maintain multiple??) is not an appealing proposition.

I am not sure how you are lagging so bad in PvP. I've never received lag there personally. Queue times vary by data center and grand company. I usually get 5 minute waits when I do it. If you don't PvP, you can still cap eso's quite easily via other methods. I listed a great number of alternatives.

I agree on Expert, the issue to me though is not that it's two dungeons, it's that it is those two dungeons. I hated both of them like 30 seconds in to each. It wasn't as bad with Neverreap and Fractals - and even those were not great.

Regardless, it's pretty easy to hit Eso cap. You can also get Eso in Diadem, i forgot to mention earlier. Nearly anything end-game in this game provides it. If you don't want to do end-game, you don't need it. If you do end-game, you'll cap easy.

Raids work ok with a lockout, and I think putting harder content in DF with a first-clear bonus of maybe double tokens would motivate more people to do it that way, especially if it grouped as I originally recommended fitting 7 clears with 1 non-clear.

I would not like to see DF be modified so greatly to promote carries such as 7 cleared people with 1 uncleared. This will just have uncleared people waiting in 16 hour long queues. Just match people up randomly, let them know with a warning that using the Duty Finder at their ilevel in this content is not advised, and let them have at it. It will at least let them experience the content, and there are still statics and PF for people who want to take the content more seriously.

All they need to do is make the loot lockout like Void Ark style when entering in DF. That is, if someone else cleared, it doesn't affect you, but you still can only get 1 drop per week.

Because I haven't gone in yet?

While I generally disagree with Uberhaxed, finding his posts go off on random points that don't properly address the topic or discussion at hand, in this case he is 100% right and you missed the mark. He said for example you, but was talking in general. There are a lot of people who are geared up who cannot complete A3S vs people who had 10-20 ilvls several months ago who did clear it. This shows that there is more than just an arbitrary gear check present, and that there are skill-checks as well.

I see no fallacy. As stated above, getting in is the biggest issue for most people who would otherwise destroy the content. DPS checks aren't a skill-based mechanic. It's just a measuring stick. Unless someone is intentionally trolling, being insanely lazy, or dead, there is no reason for them not to be DPSing at or near their gear's maximum output.

Again, you're 100% wrong on this. Getting in is not an issue, just make a learning party PF and go in (for A1S - good luck getting a group for A3S I guess). It would be great if you could video record your A1S run, so that we can all see the evidence of how amazingly you destroy this simple content.

To reiterate before, DPS checks are a skill based mechanic as well as a gear check. The variation in DPS that people put out is much higher based on skill than gear (MUCH higher).

PS: I checked your Lodestone, and you have more than enough gear to enter A1S. Make a PF recruitment for a learning party and go in, it isn't difficult at all to do.

[Morbid]

A3s/A4s is far more difficult than you can begin to fathom. DF's wouldn't even last 1-2 mins for those 2.

A3s requires coordination and a very good dps check to make. I can see holding well for 1st phase, but no way in hell for Phase 2/3, you stand no chance. Mainly statics look for people who are at the add phase or final phase, getting to that requires coordinated movement and a very good dps check.

A4s has an extreme DPS check that you must do or it wipes you in a mere instant. Merely controlling quarantines as the add inside gives blunt debuff stacks and hits like a tank on tanks if goes beyond 3. You have to defeat Phase 1/2 before getting a 4th quarantine or you're dead. Each leg clocks around 535k HP.

You won't really get much experience out of them unless you're super lucky. A3s only really starts at add phase, and A4s increases the dps check even higher on Phase 3/4.

Again.. that's what YOU feel..

Can we not let YOUR incapabilities hold others/us back. If YOU can't complete stuff through DF then YOU don't have to. Just give the option for people who ARE capable to do it through Duty Finder.

Eventually most things have gone into DF, this is to let SE know there are people out there that won't bitch about doing content in a fair, non-exploitive way.

[Undeadfire]

Doesn't matter if you're capable or not, it's fact, you won't stand a chance. The fights have to be majorly nerfed to even last more than a few mins.

[Morbid]

Just because you can't doesn't mean everyone else can't.

[Undeadfire]

Actually I am downing and working on A4s.

Who said I can't down A3s?

I'll give you proof if I have to, LOL!

It's fact, the fights are far too advanced for a DF group, got nothing to deny on it.

As stated before, A3s/A4s are on par with SCOB Savage Ilvl 110-5, you-will-not-stand-a-chance-in-df.

[Morbid]

Actually I am downing and working on A4s.

Who said I can't down A3s?

I'll give you proof if I have to, LOL!

It's fact, the fights are far too advanced for a DF group, got nothing to deny on it.

As stated before, A3s/A4s are on par with SCOB Savage Ilvl 110-5, you-will-not-stand-a-chance-in-df.

See you aren't even getting the purpose of this thread. I wasn't challenging if you have or haven't completed the content. I was challenging your notion that it is unable to be completed in a Duty Finder setting. You can't just state an absolute like that and not consider that some people are more accustomed to DF and understand the in's and out's a bit better than non DF people.

Many dedicated DF players are capable of picking up on mechanics quickly. It goes along with preferring DF in the first place..

All people want is the option.

[Callback]

To be honest, I don't get why you call it point-and-click. Perhaps we define this differently, but I rarely if ever point and click anything in combat. I'd be really curious to partner up with you and see if you have mastered your job as you suggest you have.

Further, I am not sure why you find it so simple. I personally find the combat much more engaging and complex than nearly all other MMO's I have tried (BnS, GW2, WoW, Tera, and smaller F2P games)

I've never been sure on an exact name for it. The other term I often use is 'WoW clone," since WoW was the one to most popularize this combat style and made everyone and their grandmother want to copy it in the false belief that they would also copy its financial success, but that usually gives off the wrong idea about what I really mean.

Form your list, you play only point-and-click and "reticle combat" hybrids (which I consider very much in the same family), which might explain why you can focus so easily on the differences between these games while I see it more as one big category when compared to any type of action MMO.

I am not sure how you are lagging so bad in PvP. I've never received lag there personally. Queue times vary by data center and grand company.

I ended up in the 50 one, someone told me that it runs on a bad server? I don't know, all I know is that my queue time made it not worth attempting again. Maybe if I change GC it can shorten it.

I agree on Expert, the issue to me though is not that it's two dungeons, it's that it is those two dungeons. I hated both of them like 30 seconds in to each. It wasn't as bad with Neverreap and Fractals - and even those were not great.

What might actually be kind of fun would be a dungeon that has no trash, and instead is just a handful of minibosses leading up to the end boss. Trash is what really makes these things boring.

Regardless, it's pretty easy to hit Eso cap. You can also get Eso in Diadem, i forgot to mention earlier. Nearly anything end-game in this game provides it. If you don't want to do end-game, you don't need it. If you do end-game, you'll cap easy.

I'm working on getting my gatherers to 60. I'll do Diadem after that. I tried the combat side of things once and it's REALLY dull, standing in 1 spot bashing your face against dinosaurs for 90 minutes...No thanks. But I didn't want to just be a dick and abandon with the eso requirement met. When I go to gather it will be clearly intentioned, plus I still will be contributing to the loot with any chests I find.

There are a lot of people who are geared up who cannot complete A3S vs people who had 10-20 ilvls several months ago who did clear it. This shows that there is more than just an arbitrary gear check present, and that there are skill-checks as well.

To reiterate before, DPS checks are a skill based mechanic as well as a gear check. The variation in DPS that people put out is much higher based on skill than gear (MUCH higher).

I guess I can't speak for other people. I also don't know how gimped console players may be by their controllers, if that makes things much harder. I do know that for a lot of them this really is their first MMO, and many of them may not do much gaming at all, so I guess that explains the skill gap a bit.

[MeiUshu]

run dungeons, use some pots, additional classes, will go fast..VERY fast exp is just huge, it was added when 3.0 came (if my memory servers me right) + is also stated in the tutorial provided you have read it, to unable players to not be stuck too long with additional classes in ARR. there is no fountain just regular play...As said though is only valid up to 50, once you are in HW, it is a bit slower.

As long as your additional classes are lower then the highest of your class you will get high exp...I thought you knew this ?..you didnt ?

[MeiUshu]

Doesn't matter if you're capable or not, it's fact, you won't stand a chance. The fights have to be majorly nerfed to even last more than a few mins.

who said in the first place that we dont know we dont stand a chance, albeit, people in DF know they dont stand a chance right away, but they will learn, like in everything, given the time, who are you to tell people they dont have the right to do something because they dont stand a chance ? that is a loser attitude...didnt know there was still people like that.