3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

[Nalien]

Just another reason I'd prefer Job based rankings, really...

I can see an argument against making individual performance more of a factor for rating with the current system, because then some Jobs have very clear advantages; Tanks die less, DoT heavy Jobs can inflate damage dealt if that's a factor, etc. If it's <Job> versus <Job> though? Then that doesn't matter. Not only can individual performance be more of a factor, but it can be tailored to specific Jobs (tanks losing more rating per death, for example, since they're shouldn't really die all that much). Tanks reach Diamond more easily? Who cares, if you're a Bard you're not competing against them for #1, you're competing against all the other Bards.

It kind of dusts away balancing issues, too... Dark Knight still sucks? So what, I'm competing against other Dark Knights with the same tool set, if anything I'd be glad since that means less competition... I mean I'd still want Jobs to be balanced, and the final result should still be a factor (just not the sole factor), but it's less of an issue when you're competing against others with the same Job, rather than your entire data center... The only real issue is how they'd handle rewards... Top 100 Dark Knights, when I doubt that many play Dark Knight in PvP per data center? Yeah... I mean the rewards are dumb anyway, a trophy for #1? If ever there was time for a participation award, it was here... IDK why the trophy isn't for the top 100, gear for top 10 and crown for the #1... We can show off the gear in PvP, that should be the exclusive reward, not some furnishing most probably can't do anything with anyway...

[xTysonx]

Just another reason I'd prefer Job based rankings, really...

I can see an argument against making individual performance more of a factor for rating with the current system, because then some Jobs have very clear advantages; Tanks die less, DoT heavy Jobs can inflate damage dealt if that's a factor, etc. If it's <Job> versus <Job> though? Then that doesn't matter. Not only can individual performance be more of a factor, but it can be tailored to specific Jobs (tanks losing more rating per death, for example, since they're shouldn't really die all that much). Tanks reach Diamond more easily? Who cares, if you're a Bard you're not competing against them for #1, you're competing against all the other Bards.

It kind of dusts away balancing issues, too... Dark Knight still sucks? So what, I'm competing against other Dark Knights with the same tool set, if anything I'd be glad since that means less competition... I mean I'd still want Jobs to be balanced, and the final result should still be a factor (just not the sole factor), but it's less of an issue when you're competing against others with the same Job, rather than your entire data center... The only real issue is how they'd handle rewards... Top 100 Dark Knights, when I doubt that many play Dark Knight in PvP per data center? Yeah... I mean the rewards are dumb anyway, a trophy for #1? If ever there was time for a participation award, it was here... IDK why the trophy isn't for the top 100, gear for top 10 and crown for the #1... We can show off the gear in PvP, that should be the exclusive reward, not some furnishing most probably can't do anything with anyway...

I can see pros and cons to this, for example, take the avg kills/dmg taken/healers of every class and gain/lose points in comparison to that total avg, however, the flaw to this would be matches that are unusually short (facerolls) or matches where the timer runs out meaning there is still some inconsistency.

I'm neutral to the current rewards, I'd rather everyone get something flashy and noticeable for putting dedication to the mode (the clothes) rather than some cheap joke prize as an accessory/earrings, but at the same time a trophy hardly anyone will see is a gimped prize as well and the crown look to similar to other achievement crowns and only really there to brag.

I'd rather they make a basic outfit starting off (bronze) that you trade in for a more ornate/detailed version each tier (ex bronze->silver) and the seasonal reward the fancy/glowing/bragging rights kinda outfit or hell even a exclusive mount you can only get from winning seasonal.

I really want to like the feast, but I can't see it as the e-sport SE wants it to be, the balance is too focused on the holy trinity (tank/dps/heals) relying on each other and all it takes is one death for the team to fall apart majority of the time and I frankly have to agree with a previous post you made about them just focusing on bringing Frontlines back from the dead. SE had another old game named Fantasy Earth Zero (google it) with alot of neat concepts that would synergize well in Seal Rock and the GC system. I got my Feast Mount well before season, ignored feast, and frankly the only reason I have to continue playing it is maintaining top 100, the headsmashing to aim for 1st is just too much effort and stress.

[Nalien]

I was thinking more in mind with a Job based ranking with regards to the trophy. I have no idea of the actual numbers, but I have to imagine giving us 13 (lets just ignore Classes) separate rankings would make getting in the top 100 very easy...

With the current system we're looking at 100 sets of this armor per data center, if you slap Job rankings in, then we'll have 1,300, 100 for each Job. Meanwhile, the top 10 reward jumps from 10 per data center, to 130. Given that's closer to the current 100 for the top 100, it makes sense for me if a Job ranking system rewarded the top 100 with a participation award (lame trophy with the Job symbol on, perhaps?), while the top 10 receive the gear, since that gives around the same amount of gear. While the gear would seem more exclusive given it's now for the top 10, it would actually be more common, given that's spread across 13 Jobs.

The trophy is absolutely lame anyway though. I mean I guess being #1 is its own reward, but meh... You can't show off a trophy, not without coming off as desperate and needy, meanwhile we can just slap on that gear to show it off... A title would honestly be better than the trophy... Not that any of this matters to me, no way in hell I'm getting #1... At 100 per data center I guess the gear isn't too common, it just strikes me as somewhat backwards that something as lame as the trophy is exclusive...

[BunnyChain]

Still I dont feel it. This mode is won by the better healer in 85 % of all the matches. The best way to ensure winning in Solo Que is being an exceptional healer. Being a good DD or Tank on the other hand is nice, but wont influence the outcome of the match as drastically.

At the end of the season I think the top Solo Que players will mostly be healers for that reason.

Suggestion: Maybe try to break the rankings up per Job so we dont have the best player per datacenter, but the best player in a specific Job per Datacenter.

From a healer's POV, no, not really.
If you get paired up with DDs that can't dps you won't get any coins, no matter how good your healing is. On the other hand I've seen many times ppl getting KO'd in <1sec, and some matches end in <1min. Surely you can delay a KO by spamming everything you have but you still hope that your team does more damage before you run out of MP.

I'm all for more rewards though.

P.S. Finally ended that Bronze life.

[xTysonx]

I just wanna make this post in case SE reads over it that I would also prefer a Job-based ranking system for solo ranking (you can even color the coats red/green/blue depending on role) because as I stated in a previous post, the Feast balance is too highly dependent on the holy trinity (dps,heal,tank) synergizing and the current solo ranking que is frustratingly more difficult to communicate and have synergy with 3 random people compared to an organized 4v4 light party.

[kisada]

job sortable rankings should definitely be included.

[Dimitrii]

They could consider the top 25 for each role in the rankings per data center. As in top 25 healer, melee, tank, and ranged class. This way it remains 100 across the data centers but promotes more usage of classes rather than everyone trying to heal or something since it gives the best chance at cracking top 100 given that the class has the most impact in matches. The job rankings is interesting but then you could end up being ranked on jobs like drk solely because you are one of only a handful of ppl masochistic enough to use the job in the first place.

[Nalien]

Biggest problem with Job rankings is probably measuring it specifically... We can't even get AP to be Job based so I sincerely doubt they can measure rating based on Jobs... They'd basically have to have us register to enter ranked (similar to how we register to enter Triple Triad Tournaments?) and then lock that to whatever Job we registered as...

The job rankings is interesting but then you could end up being ranked on jobs like drk solely because you are one of only a handful of ppl masochistic enough to use the job in the first place.

Isn't that kind of the point? I'd imagine it would promote using Jobs like Dark Knight (which in turn could have people other than me ranting about its flaws) since there would be less competition. I imagine it would balance out, more so if we're locked to a single Job (and given how AP still is I'm almost certain we would be). People would see the early rankings and a lot of competition on certain Jobs, and perhaps move to another one.

Another reason I'd also opt for; Top 100 - Trophy. Top 10 - Gear. Top 1 - ???. There might not be much competition for Dark Knights, but you'd need to be in the top 10 to get the proper rewards.

[EdgyLatinName]

They could consider the top 25 for each role in the rankings per data center. As in top 25 healer, melee, tank, and ranged class. This way it remains 100 across the data centers but promotes more usage of classes rather than everyone trying to heal or something since it gives the best chance at cracking top 100 given that the class has the most impact in matches. The job rankings is interesting but then you could end up being ranked on jobs like drk solely because you are one of only a handful of ppl masochistic enough to use the job in the first place.

Excuse me, I like being a active detriment to my team - thank you, please enjoy the Feast and the new DRK buffs.

[Februs]

I was thinking though, rather than provide an additional Stun, could we not just adjust how Parry works in PvP? I mean, Parry needs an overhaul in general anyway, but it would be nice if Parry was somewhat more reliable in PvP for Reprisal and Low Blows... Heck, quality of life adjustment for Dark Knight in general; Reprisal and Low Blows to also trigger from dodges, since Dark Arts Dark Dance and Dark Arts Dark Passenger are a solid evasion combo...

We might have to wait on that. SE stated in a recent live letter that they were reviewing the current Parry stat and considering making some adjustments. I don't think they said anything definitive about it yet, but it's on the table for discussion.

As for Ranking rewards being separated by jobs, how would you guys propose this be done? Match outcome doesn't quite work, because it would still be dependent on the team working as a team. Personal performance seems like a more "fair" way to determine ranking, but I don't see how they could possibly measure that for Tanks and Healers. For example, a healer might be healing HUGE numbers, but completely ignoring their utility and costing (such as sleeps, heavies, binds, etc). Does that healer deserve a higher ranking than the one who is using their CC effectively at the expense of a bit of healing? And what about tanks? Dmg mitigated isn't really a thing in PvP, because no Dps in their right mind goes after the tank unless they have no other option. Aggro is not a thing either, and Tanks don't have huge dps numbers. That leaves utility (such as stuns, debuffs, healer defense or offense, etc) ... but how does SE monitor that?

I'm all for being stacked up against the other players within my job bracket (be it job specific or even just "Tanks"), but I just don't get how they'd be able to accurately measure how well or poorly healers and tanks preform short of actually watching each match. They could just tally the matches you've won or lost, but that's no different than how it's done now, really.