3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

[Cynric]

Ninja Hide should be nerfed. They can run away and be classed as out of battle once far enough and hide with medals.

The Aetherflow buff is stupid too.

I'm assuming they meant it can't be dispelled. Otherwise it doesn't really make sense.

[Dimitrii]

The Aetherflow buff is stupid too.

What was stupid was allowing one job the ability to strip a core or fundamental aspect of another job. About time they finally made it undispellable. SCH were already behind the other 2 heals as is they don't need to be handicapped even further with OIP spam.

[xxczx]

that is the whole part of mnk. schs and smns had to readjust when there was mnk in other party, i suspect the people who wanted nerf was the ones who couldn't.

aetherflow is only 1min cd too, there is plently other buffs monk can take that has longer cd.

this also greatly buffs smn too.

[RiceisNice]

...It also became clear to us that, because we were using a simple calculation based on max HP, healers and casters were gravitating towards a strategy of using vitality accessories to reduce the risk of being interrupted, even if it resulted in decreased attack and healing magic potency.

This is the case because getting those casts off are very well worth the hit to potency (in relation to just how potent the casted spells are, espesically from a perspective of WHM and BLM). I agree it shouldn't be so easily interrupted, but it shouldn't be so loose to the point that a melee can stay on you and still not meet the threshold to interrupt (which is frequently the case, doubly so with the defense buff)

PvP Ratings and Matchmaking


However, as this will increase matchmaking times, we are currently debating whether or not we should expand the range of eligible players if a given period of time passes without finding enough participants. At the moment, we do not wish to utilize this solution, as ideally we would like all matches to be held within the same tier. We are considering our options for Season Two, and would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

There's no other way to say this; if you want ranks to actually mean anything (such as seasonal rewards), there has to be some form of restrictions to the match making. Even if it comes at the cost of cutting down queue pops...keep in mind that if we're talking ranked games, I'm sure the players are playing to win to increase and maintain their rank, not for fun.. High ranked players should not be able to gain a good amount of ratings from defeating lower rank players to overshoot the higher ranked ones, etc etc.

Heavy Medal

[INDENT]With the release of patch 3.22, a stack of Heavy Medal went from increasing damage received by 10% to 15%─a change which many of you believed might have gone too far. Some on the dev team also thought it might be too high as well, as the flow of battle usually results in players filling their adrenaline gauges in the latter half of the match, which could place teams that gather medals early or midway through at a disadvantage, making it easy for their opponents to mount a last minute comeback.

The problem with this is that the tanks are frequently much too durable to be killed even at as high as a 50% damage reduction. This has always been the problem. Although this does address a little bit to how fragile how non-tanks can be when they are picking up medals.

Job-specific Changes

Of course, the greatest amount of feedback we received related to various jobs and their abilities. We would like to thank you all for your many detailed suggestions.

With patch 3.26 we will be making the following adjustments:



Black Mage

• Sleep
  Duration: 15s → 12s (PvP only)
  
  
• Night Wing
  Duration: 10s → 8s (Enhanced Night Wing II: 15s → 12s)

Sleep is highly effective at turning the tide of battle, and players found it stressful to be repeatedly afflicted with sleep and unable to act. For players with Sleep Resistance, the duration will be halved (6s for Sleep and Enhanced Night Wing II, 4s for Night Wing).

White Mage

• Repose
  Duration: 15s → 8s
  Duration halved with successive uses (8s → 4s → 2s)

Fluid Aura followed by repeated Repose was judged to be overpowered, and so we decided to adjust Repose while leaving Fluid Aura as-is.

Most of the inherent problems in regards to WHM and BLM has broken through because of the interrupt changes. The sleep duration was (and probably still is at 12 seconds) still incredibly long. Even if you consider sleep resistance, it's 1 second in change. The inbalance is also in regards to what these jobs can do relative to their peers (BLM to SMN/MCH/BRD, and WHM to SCH/AST). The fact is, SCH and AST have very little, if any, forms of CC or self preserverence compared to WHM, especially when the latter has both a sleep and knockback+bind.

Machinist

• Between the Eyes
  Potency: 150 → 120 (Enhanced Between the Eyes II: 180 → 150)

As touched upon in the 28th PLL, we determined that Machinist burst damage was a bit high.

A bit high relative to who? BRD, SMN and BLM? (which honestly where it should be compared for the most part, because you can't take a melee over a MCH in feast). This drops their potential potency from 540 to 450, that's a 90 difference. Compared to BRD who has 660 through empyreal barrage (albeit it can't crit), sidewinder, misery's end and farshot versus reassembled cleaner shot, ricochet, heart breaker and gauss round. This is also not taking into consideration that MCH's damage outside of burst can be really poor even compared to BRD, on top of having relatively weak self-preservation skills compared to their peers. On top of that, some changes also indirectly nerf MCH (again, relative to other ranged) and give BRD more of a utility advantage, which is more expanded later.

Dark Knight

[*]Carnal Chill
Recast Time: 120s → 90s (Enhanced Carnal Chill: 90s → 60s)
Damage Penalty: 10% → 40% (Enhanced Carnal Chill III: 20% → 60%)
Duration: 20s → 6s

Carnal chill does it job through a debuff, meaning it can be cleansed such, trade off is that it only affects a single target and those around it. It does it's job well enouigh that a well placed chill can mitigate the opposing teams burst, but at the same time it has a counter play of it being cleansed, though the specific one I want to bring up is BRD's warden's peaen. This has always been something that BRD had over MCH as an edge, and with the changes to carnal chill, it gives them another layer of counterplay over what MCH has (again, in relation to the nerf specific to MCH burst, while on it's own wouldn't be too big, it does make it a little bit undesirable to other ranged dps in consideration of other changes)

Ninja


[*]Fetter Ward
Can now be used by Thief / Ninja

Ninjas, like Warriors, possess a strong advantage in prolonged engagements due to their HP recovery debuff, and so we have decided to remove this component of their attack in PvP as well. However, compared to other melee DPS, it is more dangerous for them to utilize adrenaline rush, which is why we have decided to make Fetter Ward available to them.

One thing I need to bring up with fetter ward is that it makes it impossible for a MCH burst to go out for the duration that it's available (which can rule out bursting out the melee dps at the start of an engagement). Giving them fetter ward on the basis that it's dangerous for them to use adrenaline rush (which I really hope isn't their only line of reasoning) is incredibly short sighted for any balance change. Ninjas already have the benefit of being able to stealth to safely get first hits in (which honestly I think they need to make some more adjustments for it to be more influential in a PvP match, for the right reasons, more on that later).

There's also no mention of how ninjas can stealth with heavy medal. There is already a scarce amount of free-use AoE and stealth detection in PvP, which works to stealth's advantage. That being said though, the fact that a ninja can stealth while hoarding medals is a problem of it's own. Especially with how big the playing field is.

Summoner / Scholar

We received a tremendous amount of feedback from players regarding this very issue. After careful consideration, we decided that it was unacceptable that players could prevent the usage of an ability required for so many job actions.

If you're going to do this with aetherflow, then why not MCH procs and ammo? It's more core to their burst than people would think when they need two different buffs to be able to do so (cleaner shot which allows them to use a 180 potency hit, and reassemble to guaranteed a crit). Though I'm on the side of keeping it the way it is (and in response, buff SCH so they're not as so contingent on aetherflow for healing effectiveness) because it just makes something like 1-ilm even more niche than it already is (do we have a problem with a skill that's oriented to PvP to be working in PvP?)

[Alberel]

that is the whole part of mnk. schs and smns had to readjust when there was mnk in other party, i suspect the people who wanted nerf was the ones who couldn't.

aetherflow is only 1min cd too, there is plently other buffs monk can take that has longer cd.

this also greatly buffs smn too.

A monk was capable of entirely shutting down everything a Summoner had beside their basic dots with ONE SKILL... If you don't see that as overpowered then you have no clue what balance means. If the PvP in this game was built on a Rock < Paper < Scissors approach then maybe it would make sense but as it was MNKs were the only job in the game with a hard counter to another job. It was completely unfair on SMNs and SCHs.

[cielociel]

Ninja Hide should be nerfed. They can run away and be classed as out of battle once far enough and hide with medals.

The Aetherflow buff is stupid too.

Dunno what you are talking about my friend.

[Dimitrii]

that is the whole part of mnk. schs and smns had to readjust when there was mnk in other party, i suspect the people who wanted nerf was the ones who couldn't.

aetherflow is only 1min cd too, there is plently other buffs monk can take that has longer cd.

this also greatly buffs smn too.

Aetherflow is on a 1 minute cooldown while Somersault can be traited to 40 seconds. What makes monk so special compared to DRG and NIN that you feel they need to be a job counter specialist to sch and to a lesser extent smn?

[KingKoush]

I'm disappointed there will be no ranked premade rewards even though the demand for it was high. This pretty much ensures I will be just playing solo as it will be much harder to motivate people to play in teams.

[RiceisNice]

A monk was capable of entirely shutting down everything a Summoner had beside their basic dots with ONE SKILL... If you don't see that as overpowered then you have no clue what balance means. If the PvP in this game was built on a Rock < Paper < Scissors approach then maybe it would make sense but as it was MNKs were the only job in the game with a hard counter to another job. It was completely unfair on SMNs and SCHs.

Aetherflow is on a 1 minute cooldown while Somersault can be traited to 40 seconds. What makes monk so special compared to DRG and NIN that you feel they need to be a job counter specialist to sch and to a lesser extent smn?

The game can't really be in a roshambo format because of the enforced party composition.

But even then, it's not like SMN is entirely SoL on options on keeping a monk at pay for even a handful of seconds to get their burst off. Though this does go back to the somersault change on MNK (Which even to this day, I feel its completely unnecessary). If the cooldown was changed back to be 90/60, it wouldn't be as much of a problem as it is now. A lot of their changes seem incredibly short sighted to be honest.

[AdamZ]

This drops their potential potency from 540 to 450, that's a 90 difference. Compared to BRD who has 660 through empyreal barrage (albeit it can't crit)

Is that a true comp? Between the eyes on off GCD, while an empyreal barrage in on GCD. And Mech's have Rapid Fire which is close to empyreal barrage. Rapid Fire when paired with Reload and Gauss Round is also 660 potency... Or am I not understanding something?

All I know, a good Bard on the other team, does not scare me the way a good Mech does.