3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

[Cynric]

]snip

There are better ways to up play the Offensive potential of DRK. However an inverse HP skill in PVP would do more harm than good. It'd either be too strong or too weak. I can try to come up with something. However honestly Warrior is very much the DPS / offensive tank already. Just because DRK has utility doesn't mean it can't also be offensive. It's just not terribly good at anything right now and Warrior has offense covered so well already.

The easiest way to do what you're asking would be to make an augment to CnS making it a real threefold attack.(PVP) and giving them one more stun.

I'm not sure about fetter ward on DRK to be honest. It's an iffy thing but it could work well, though having a tank that can become immune to CC might be too much in mid - late game when the tank has to be killed if they have most of the medals, and if they fetter ward + run around > turtle > inulvnerable it may be too unbalanced.

[Nalien]

Eh, way I see it we've currently got;

Paladin - High utility, low DPS.
Warrior - Mid utility, high DPS.
Dark Knight - Low utility, mid DPS.

When what we should have, IMO, is;

Paladin - High utility, low DPS.
Warrior - Mid utility, mid DPS.
Dark Knight - Low utility, high DPS.

And that doesn't even touch on the survivability issue, in which Grit Souleater and Abyssal Drain are just utter pants compared to Clemency and Second Wind/Equilibrium... Heck, I'd take a Paladin Cure over what Dark Knight currently offers in that regard... They could play up Dark Knights self healing, but again, I'd see that as making it too similar to its contenders, where as something like Minus Strike leaves things as is while providing a potential pay-off.

[fm_fenrir]

Why not go after DRK's magic defense gimmick, like Void Knight from Rift?

[Iagainsti]

When what we should have, IMO, is;

Paladin - High utility, low DPS.
Warrior - Mid utility, high DPS.
Dark Knight - Mid utility, high DPS.

Fixed it for ya ;D I think both tanks should be aggressive, leaving the paladin to be the more defensive. It was really sad to see my DRK pve tanking partner run some 8v8 with me to lore cap, and after 10 matches, he's like, "Nope." and switched to Warrior.

Tar pit should have a 3-4sec bind with a dot tick in the aoe(like an anti Sacred Prism), and Carnal Chill should get the Heavy tacked on to the tool tip, along with the MP drain radius to combat has to be shrinked. Just my opinion, but those 3 fixes would definitely increase a DRKs role in the current PVP meta.

[Nalien]

Why not go after DRK's magic defense gimmick, like Void Knight from Rift?

That would be functionally useless half the time... There are only really two Jobs that would have any real benefit to out of ten... Granted, most Jobs have a few magic based attacks, and healers might drop the odd AoE, but that's not consistent enough to work IMO. If a Black Mage starts casting on me, I'll pop Dark Mind assuming I'll be hit with more casts. If a White Mage just hit me with Assize? Already missed my chance to use Dark Mind...

Is it even really fair to call magic defense Dark Knights gimmick? OK, we have Dark Mind and Delirium, but that's it... Does two skills, one of which is replaced by Monk, really constitute a gimmick? It's the only thing it has over Warrior or Paladin, sure, but I'd say Dark Knight is much more focused on DPS and Parry, both things Warrior outclasses it on... Other than that, self-healing is where Dark Knight really shines, Grit Souleater is essentially a better version of Inner Beast and DA Abyssal Drain is absolutely amazing... In PvE... In PvP Dark Knights biggest strength is a complete joke, DA Abyssal Drain is garbage worse than Paladin Cure (had its place in Frontlines, though) and Grit Souleater requires Grit, which is bad (losing Blood Weapon is just horrible in so many ways), and the wind-up on it is too long... Tar Pit is a complete and utter joke, I honestly don't know what compelled the developers to make it so weak considering its on a cooldown... That 20~40% damage dealt to HP should be 200~400% if anything... Yes that's an exaggeration, but Tar Pit is stupid... Sole Survivor + Mercy Stroke is amazing, though far from reliable and rarely something I'll get off when I really need it... I honestly find it more useful for getting MP back than as a self-heal...

Other than that, there is the evasion aspect of the Job, DA Dark Passenger + DA Dark Dance... That's probably the only thing Dark Knight can bring from PvE that actually still works reliably in PvP, though reliable and evasion are not words that go hand in hand... It really is more of a Parry/Evasion tank, rather than magic one... Why we don't have Raw Intuition when we have Reprisal is beyond me... Still, that's a massive 4420MP sunk into maybe dodging some attacks... Something I'd take easier if a large portion my MP recovery wasn't based on taking hits... Christ... For that MP Paladin can pop a massive 2400 potency heal on themselves (and I'm ignoring Divine Veil because this post is already making me put the salt into Salted Earth again...), or 2400 on a party member and 1200 on themselves... I can maybe cause some dodging for 20 seconds... OK Dark Knight has a much easier time recovering MP, but that's still an insane difference...

[RiceisNice]

That would be functionally useless half the time... There are only really two Jobs that would have any real benefit to out of ten... Granted, most Jobs have a few magic based attacks, and healers might drop the odd AoE, but that's not consistent enough to work IMO. If a Black Mage starts casting on me, I'll pop Dark Mind assuming I'll be hit with more casts. If a White Mage just hit me with Assize? Already missed my chance to use Dark Mind...

Might want to omit the healer part because there's no cleric stance.

[Februs]

I think both tanks should be aggressive, leaving the paladin to be the more defensive.

You know, it's funny but some of the most successful matches I've ever had are the ones in which I play Paladin in a completely offensive manner as well. Most people have a full blown panic attack when they see a Pld running anything other than a steady stream of Shield Bashes, but there's a lot to be said for DoT application on that job. Given that half of Pld's kit for party defense is passive (DV/Testudo) they've got a lot of time to play around on the offensive line before they start up on Clemency and Cover (assuming they're even needed). Though, how much play you actually get depends on how self-sufficient your healer is.

I do agree that both Drk and War should get a slight offensive boost though, to make up for what they that lack in defensive. In my opinion, War's are essentially working as they should. Some of the most horrifying groups to play against are ones with War's, especially if they've got a Nin running as Dps. Drk's, on the other hand, are falling behind. The next patch couldn't come soon enough for them. Personally, I'd still like to see Tar Pit turned into an area denial that binds/heavies as well as DoT's the player who stands in it. It would probably go miles for improving their utility, especially if they dropped it on a supply box or medals.

[Neuflune]

MNK : Being able to remove all 3 stacks of Aetherflow with one attack is too much, especially for SCH, as it struggles enough already. I'm fine with Retrogradation and Wither to remove all 3 but since it's possible to spam One Ilm Punch or at least to use it regularly, it's too threatening for SCH and SMN to have a big part of their healing/dps so easily shut down. Please make One Ilm Punch remove only one stack of Aetherflow at a time.

SMN : After seeing the recent changes in action, Tri-Bind needs to be restored to 12 sec, this change made little sense. SMN needs a good CC skill since it's a very defenseless class.

Logging in to point this out as well, basically. Especially the change to Tri-bind. Why was that even necessary? BLM's Sleep remains untouched, and that one prevents any action or movement. Tri-bind only prevents movement, so why was it even nerfed?

[RiceisNice]

Logging in to point this out as well, basically. Especially the change to Tri-bind. Why was that even necessary? BLM's Sleep remains untouched, and that one prevents any action or movement. Tri-bind only prevents movement, so why was it even nerfed?

Bind also prevents turning, which is just as detrimental to non-healers since they need to be be facing their target. 12 seconds (let alone 6) is way too long for CC in something trying to be as fast paced as this. Though I also agree that it's outrageous that they left BLM and WHM's CC durations alone (especially when BLM also has a bind that's still 12 seconds)

[Neuflune]

Bind also prevents turning, which is just as detrimental to non-healers since they need to be be facing their target. 12 seconds (let alone 6) is way too long for CC in something trying to be as fast paced as this. Though I also agree that it's outrageous that they left BLM and WHM's CC durations alone (especially when BLM also has a bind that's still 12 seconds)

I tried to be as concise as possible. If I need to be wordy... yes Bind prevents any kind of movement (including turning); while Sleep prevents any action (movement, using skills, everything except Purify). If they're poking one job's CC, they should poke similar CC in other jobs. Otherwise they should leave it alone and just adjust potencies/ticks if the problem was burst DPS.