Thread: 3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

DRK sacrificing their HP to give it to others would be too dangerous lol. Carnal Chill should be an AOE around the DRK with the range of helios or something smaller for starters, atm it's too limited. Tar Pit binding instead of heavying sounds good too.

Originally Posted by Februs

I agree that Drk's Mp management is definitely one of it's biggest set backs at the moment. There's no denying that they lack utility when compared to War and Pld, but insufficient mana cripples them to the point of uselessness. Mana draw would go a long way for this. The only other thing I'd probably like to see is Tar Pit adjusted to a ground based AoE that has a Bind, rather than a heavy. Their party utility would be fantastic, and their chase potential would serve the team, rather than just themselves.

IDK about that, situations where that chasing potential works in my favor are usually situations where I want to kill someone as fast as possible, not Bind them and wait for my team to catch up... Waiting usually means their healer respawns and heals them... Bind would be more useful in other situations though, but I think I prefer a previous suggestion of effectively making Tar Pit reverse Mythril Tempest; Draws people in rather than pushing them out. Would have similar utility and make the Heavy slightly more valuable, since you're not only slowing people down, but pulling them away from where they want to be too... Plus interrupt potential...

Originally Posted by NoelNoel

DRK sacrificing their HP to give it to others would be too dangerous lol. Carnal Chill should be an AOE around the DRK with the range of medica for starters, atm it's too limited. Tar Pit binding instead of heavying sounds good too.

Depends on how much HP is sacrificed, and have you seen Living Dead? Stupidly dangerous is kinda Dark Knights thing... Stacks nicely with Living Dead, now that I think about it...

If I drop say 25% of my HP to heal someone, I don't see that as particularly dangerous... Tar Pit can easily heal that back, as can Sole Survivor... Tanks are rarely the focus of attention anyway, and if losing 25% makes me the center of attention? Good... Not only does that give my healer a breather (after I've presumably just healed them), but it also lets me get more of out of Blood Price and my defensive cooldowns which generally sit unused for most of the match...

Also, no on changing Carnal Chill... That doubling up as ranged burst is too valuable... Heck, even if I was solely using it for the debuff, having it AoE around me seems more limited than being able to look at a Warrior half way across the map and go "That's a nice stack of Abandon you have there...", I've had far too many clutch kills/saves by tossing Carnal Chill out from a distance... Despite it's obvious weaknesses compared to what Paladin has, it's actually perfectly fine IMO...

Originally Posted by Nirokun

Make Syphon Strike deal damage with increased MP returned in PVP, with that increase dealt as damage to the target's MP.

I've toyed around with the idea of Dark Arts Delirium damaging MP, it would be quite nice for Dark Knight to have something that pushes long encounters in their favor, since currently longer encounters are nothing but bad for a Dark Knight...

Originally Posted by NoelNoel

I can't count how many times (as DRG) I LB'd unsuspecting tanks that weren't full HP, I suppose if you're ready to react asap to sacrificing your HP it's fine, but if you have a stack or two and I see an opening I'm definitely gonna take the opportunity to end a match faster.

Well, the moment I see a melee Limit Break me, I usually pop Living Dead in time... If I take your Limit Break rather than my healer, who is now free to heal me because I just healed someone and you're no longer focusing them and in animation lock, I'd say that would be well worth the risk...

Originally Posted by NoelNoel

I understand your point about Carnal Chill though, but that's because you use it as a dps tool, not that it's not meant to be used as such, but it's mostly aimed at supporting your PT. And what greater use than it hiting multiple targets (for dps) AND applying a damage reduction.

I don't just use it for DPS though... That damage reduction would be worthless to me if it's an AoE around me, I'd have to run next to whoever I want to pop it on, rather than just throwing it at someone from across the map... You'd either need to boost its range to be the entire arena or close for me to see any benefit out of that change... If I have to reposition myself in order to apply it, it's worthless... For both DPS and support, I need to be able to point and fire Carnal Chill... Right now I can hit a Warrior with it from across the map and ruin their Feels Cleave, make it AoE around me and I'll have to reposition myself, perhaps I can move early and do the same thing, but now the healer I was harassing doesn't have me on their heels...

Originally Posted by Kyani

Remember how bad Scholars were before the changes to cast times? This would make SCH worse than that. Just charge up on the fairy or another target, then tag the Scholar every time they have to stop to heal.

That's why I'd lock it behind Dark Arts, you'd be unable to really spam it (pending any MP changes for Dark Knight, that is). Depends entirely how much MP it take off, too... If it was 1:1 damage:MP, then that would be insanely powerful, I'd imagine it would be much less... It would essentially be similar to Monk spamming Arm of the Destroyer, effective but unsustainable and coming at the cost of damage.

Originally Posted by Nalien

I've toyed around with the idea of Dark Arts Delirium damaging MP, it would be quite nice for Dark Knight to have something that pushes long encounters in their favor, since currently longer encounters are nothing but bad for a Dark Knight...

Remember how bad Scholars were before the changes to cast times? This would make SCH worse than that. Just charge up on the fairy or another target, then tag the Scholar every time they have to stop to heal.

Speaking of Scholar, any ETA on letting them respawn with fairy and/or Aetherflow? SCH is really not viable without their fairy, and it costs either 6 seconds or a long CD and 2k mana to get it back on res.

Originally Posted by Nalien

IDK about that, situations where that chasing potential works in my favor are usually situations where I want to kill someone as fast as possible, not Bind them and wait for my team to catch up... Waiting usually means their healer respawns and heals them... Bind would be more useful in other situations though, but I think I prefer a previous suggestion of effectively making Tar Pit reverse Mythril Tempest; Draws people in rather than pushing them out. Would have similar utility and make the Heavy slightly more valuable, since you're not only slowing people down, but pulling them away from where they want to be too... Plus interrupt potential...

That depends on what type of bind is in place.

Right now, there's not a lot of difference between a heavy and a bind, because they both essentially do the same thing: Give you more time to smack the victim around while your dps catch up. Most dps can, and will, catch up quite quickly because all melee have a gap closer and ranged are ranged. The only real difference between the two is that Heavy lasts longer, but that's why I proposed that Tar Pit be made into a Ground Based AoE.

The idea here isn't to simply hit the attack, do the dmg, and inflict an instant bind which falls off right when the victim gets struck. The idea is to make Tar Pit into a kind of pseudo-Holmgang. Using it would generate a literal Tar Pit around the Drk, and everyone within range of the Tar Pit is fixed in place. The only way out would be to use Purify. The potential party utility of such a move would more than make up for Drk's current shortcomings, because it could cause interrupts, snare targets for burns, couple well with plunge for chase potential, and even be used as an area denial to isolate targets from objectives or their other teammates.