Thread: 3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

dunno If GM's are still monitoring this but here some musings regarding the melee dps, I play ranged and healers, but melee is really my area of expertise so I'll really just talk about that

When the tank changes were originally implemented, I read some long time pvp tank talking about how he was quitting due to the damage/vit changes and how shallow playing tank is in pvp is with his offensive power nerfed.

I really feel that how he put that is exactly how I feel playing ninja/drg in the feast. But monk is the one DPS that doesn't feel quite as shallow, it feels fleshed out and interesting.

Now that we're constantly being exposed to long drawn out fights, I think it highlights how shallow the pvp gameplay of a CLASS can be from a melee's perspective in the feast.

For dragoon, oh sure, the opening burst is intricate and how I go about applying it while being focused is far from shallow and usually exciting, but once the burst is down, gameplay is stifled. You're just going through your simple rotation and hitting cooldowns when they come up, or delaying them to match them up for a bigger burst. Of course there is nuances and little things you can do here and there with ff/elusive/fetter/skewer/weapon throw etc, but any utility is on an extremely long cooldown. Of course there is large deviations in combat itself, and how that goes down is far from shallow, but what I'm talking about here, is the combat of the class specifically. As I said, this makes gameplay for the class feel quite shallow. Outside of feint, there is very little options for you to deviate in anyway from your usual skills. Then even your defensive cooldowns are very lackluster. FF can be nice for dodging the occasional big melee hit and keen flurry is "okay" for mitigation over time from a non magica hitl, but overall they are underwhelming. You have no protection vs anything magical, your defensive cooldowns are mostly going to make very little difference. Basically you just heal yourself, heavy your target if its up, and run around or away... and thats basically it. I'm used to playing PVP where classes actually have defensive skills that are actually do something worthwhile. Without them, the defensive side of combat is again, very shallow.

Now regarding monk. Monk feels very different, while dragoon is super shallow, monk feels fleshed out and much more alive. It's got so many tools and clutch skills that are truly gamechanging.
I'll just list a few of these as there seems to be very little talk regarding how the melee actually play.

Axe kick: GOD TIER skill. 6 second AOE pacification??? This is just stupidly strong. Defensively it basically means you can save anyone or at the very least, make people blow purifies. It's crazy powerful as a defensive skill alone. Then the offensive utility on top, tornado kick into axe kick... so good.

One ilm punch: Again, godly. You can strip the most powerful skills in the game...with no cooldown? Combined with perfect balance and somersault this skill gives you a reliable means to to take nearly everything a player has.
This makes you so, so strong defensively, consistently. It's a gamechanger that is available so frequently.

arm of the destroyer. That extra utility can be so clutch, the ability to silence if you need it (though every rotation cycle) can stop a sure kill fire 4, or stop that final cure 2 going off. Even more pressure, throw in perfect balance....

Meditation/The forbidden Chakra. This is just beautiful in pvp. Anytime there is a lull, anytime you are outside of range, anytime you are being kited, anytime you need to set up a burst, you can use this to build up a godly OGCD skill. I love this skill so much.

Tornado kick. The OPTION to blow your stacks for burst is just beautiful in pvp, combined with axe kick and PB, another thing that makes monk so wonderfully fleshed out.

Form Shift: Just a little thing, but the ability to save your GL 3 or hit your desired stance when out of range is amazing. It's just another little thing that that makes this class great to play in pvp.

Mantra. yeah other melee can cross class it, but without the trait it's nothing in comparison. This is again, another clutch skill that can game change.

PB: The utility and options this and and sommersault/tornado kick give you is just perfect.

Fists of earth. It actually works vs magic! This is the type of skill which I said other dps lacked earlier, a defensive cooldown that actually makes a difference. Except it's not a cooldown, it's a stance. This skill is unbelievably good. Makes you very tanky, can comfortably survive LB's. Makes picking up medals much safer. Really an insanely powerful skill.

Fists of wind: Just more utility, sprint down, need to get away, close distance? It's there if you need it.


Somersault: Everyone was complaining about how this was an unnecessary buff, and I'd agree the damage was unneeded, but lowering the cooldown to allow you that deviation in your usual play for some real utility, is a very welcome change. The problem is, it's too strong because the other melee lack anything comparable and they aren't quite as well rounded as monk.



All of these things add up to make a beautiful pvp class that avoids feeling stagnant, while the others suffer from it. When monk burst is down, you always have those extra options that allow you flexibility in your gameplay, be it defensive, offensive or just pressure. Monk has an answer to basically everything in it's gameplay and that makes its so much fun to play.

Monk 3.0 is really a step in the right direction for pvp, a fleshed out class that has real flexibility and options. The only problem is, is that all of this is ontop of monk having outsanding dps and burst, and then all that utility.
Currently it makes monk god tier, but I really don't want to see it's utility suffer. It's the other classes that need to be brought up to it's level in this regard. Ninja is a obviously better with the mudras, but outside of 2 utility mudras it really feels really boring with it's 1/2/3 play, dots are situational in pvp and it's burst is on such a long cooldown, it's quite a lackluster experience compared to monk in the feast imo. FL is different though as ninja is really more of an variable terrain sort of dps, thats really where it shines.


Dragon plays very well and it is my favourite class, but there is quite a few problems, and that lack of utility is really starting to feel weird to me now considering the changes to the other meeles.
I think Dragons niche was supposed to be the unkiteable DPS... yeah they lack much deviation in their gameplay, but they have the tools to stick to you and just tear you up. And that makes perfect sense.
The thing with that is though, ninja is now far better at staying on your ass than Drg. The change to ground targeting macros makes shukuchi a much more efficient means of gap closing, then overwhelms cooldown was reduced, ontop of that they were given fetterward which was their biggest weakness, then last but not least the 20 second coodown binds and aoe eavy. If that was dragoons niche, it seems very odd that ninja is now better at staying in/getting in.

Problem with DRG is that spineshatter has a stun and you really want to avoid hitting DR's on stun in pvp, which makes DFD your reliable gapcloser...except its on a 2 min cooldown? I don't get this. Elusive is obviously a great get away skill, and great for removing snares/slows. But if you were about to fetter as you're bursting but got snared, you are better off purifying that then elusive... elusive goes so far so you basically just kite yourself. It can be a gapcloser, but again, 180 seconds cooldown? Then there is the problem with Jump. It's huge damage and great for bursting, obviously this is a great damage skill. But using it on a non stunned target just means you created a kiting situation for your opponent, as the animation lock means you can't move for awhile, your opponent will gain distance.

There is these odd discrepancies between the melee now and some glaring flaws. Monk is just simply too good all round, and if it is to stay at that level power, I'd like to see the other melee and tanks get as much attention as monk has to really flesh them out. Ninja is actually great atm, but the fetterward was a bizarre change to me... so I really don't even know in what direction that class is supposed to be going, especially considering they are really more a FL type class. I fear that rather than just nerfing some potencies on monk or cooldowns, they'll hit them in a way that will take away from how well they play overall, and thats something that really needs to be avoided. As monk is the melee that really is properly fleshed out (how many times have I said fleshed out?) and plays beautifully.

In general I feel you should either add some more PVP actions, tack on some pvp traits to abilities, or just outright switch around some skills potencies and cooldowns for pvp in general and flesh the classes out more for pvp.

Ugh... Adding fetterward to ninja only made them somewhat able to hold a candle to drgs and mnks... and about the "Utility" Ninja is great with utility! In PVE... most utilities are pointless like trick attack and slashing debuff that was nerfed anyway. Try hitting positionals when a thirsty DPS or healer keeps squirming like they're on acid xD