Thread: 3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

Originally Posted by ShaluaLie

At least make solo ques DUO. having 1 person with you makes a big difference.

That would hurt queue times in the long run, exactly because it makes a big difference.

One of the issues with The Fold was people bringing in a pocket player (usually heals) with them, making them much more coordinated and stacking their winning odds over Pick up Groups. In turn, solo players who didn't have a pocket player they can bring with them eventually stopped queuing, because they would run into the same tag-team players over and over and lose every time. It was one of the reasons that people were encouraged to queue solo for the community organized Friday Night Fights, because it put everyone on equal footing. Sadly, you always did get one or two groups who would roll with a pre-made group or bring in a pocket healer, and that really did put a downer on the whole thing. Sometimes queues would just dry right up, because no one wanted to play if they knew that they were just going to lose against a well coordinated duo.

Originally Posted by tehomegaking

Don't put words in my mouth. I never asked for additional self heals comparable to blood bath.

You brought up bloodbath buddy not me. Maybe don't include useless information in your post if it has nothing to do with your post in the first place? You were drawing comparisons between mug and bloodbath and then wanna backtrack you dont want mug to have similar healing potencies like wtf why bother mentioning bloodbath in the first place then? You still have recouperate and access to second wind not to mention shadeshift. Bloodbath isn't gonna be the ability that you're gonna be like "oh sh*t imma die let me pop bloodbath to survive this." Mug is just an ogcd damage ability thats supposed to give you extra chance at additional items if your farming mats or something outside. A treasure hunter ripoff from XI basically with the added bonus that it does dmg. The healing part is just some tacked on nonsense that doesnt even sound like it should be included in the ability in the first place so maybe if it didn't have the healing part at all you would feel better? Haymaker doesnt make much sense either you gonna lobby to change that as well? Maybe Dark Passenger too?

Originally Posted by tehomegaking

Like when Dragoon was the best den meele and then got buffed out the absolute ass?

It was wrong then and they did it anyway so why not repeat it basically is what you are saying? Sorry I dont agree with this logic.

Originally Posted by tehomegaking

Like when Monk could barely function in den due to pitiful greased lightning time, which would be lost over and over, and no real gap closer (shoulder tackler only useable from ridiculous distance), you mean actual problems like this that weren't addressed for over a year while dragoon got a plethora of buffs when it was already in a great place?

Again it was stupid then, and yet you wanna go ahead and repeat that? For what purpose? As some sort of reparation? I guess your reasoning would be:

Monk was crap for a while and we feel bad so lets go and buff them even further now even though we already fixed its previous problems (and even though they dont need further buffs to be in line with the other melee) just as reparation for all the suffering they endured in the past.

That's how it works now lol? Continue to ignore bigger problems to "fix" an ability (mug) who's main application when developed was likely to imitate treasure hunter for mat farmers and not to be some incredibly useful pvp ability? Yeah, no. FFXIV is not the place to start practicing affirmative action policies. Not every ability in the game is gonna be incredibly useful. Believe it or not some are just niche abilities.

Maybe don't include useless information in your post if it has nothing to do with your post in the first place?

Bloodbath was mentioned to show that there is a large, large discrepancy between the melee's "niche" healing tools, that there is room for a slight increase in power, and it still won't come even close to touching upon bloodbaths power. I was very careful to say things like "slight tweak" and be careful of it being "OP". However, I didn't anticipate someone ignoring that and just seeing red and deeming from my post that I'm asking for a healing potency increase of 500% which is anything but a "slight tweak" and certainly "OP"... my bad, I guess?

Bloodbath isn't gonna be the ability that you're gonna be like "oh sh*t imma die let me pop bloodbath to survive this."

Because PVP is so black and white and the only time to use a heal is when you are gonna die? Bloodbath is a utility skill, a heal over time that gives you self sustainability that can push you over the edge to survive while your bursting where you usually wouldn't. Skills that have less black and white uses, that end up being a great positive when used right, create fun and dynamic PVP, and these skills are something FF14 needs much more of (like a slightly tweaked mug?).

Mug is just an ogcd damage ability thats supposed to give you extra chance at additional items if your farming mats or something outside. A treasure hunter ripoff from XI basically with the added bonus that it does dmg.

Actually, Mug is on the border of being a decent utility skill that can give you that tiny bit of extra HP you need to survive where you wouldn't normally, heres an example though its not great as the slight recovery ended up being irelevant. He was trying to get himself the extra HP to tank the inevitable innerbeast/fell cleave (since it wasnt beserked, the warrior wasted it), thats how it can be used https://youtu.be/1yY8ASYrkLg?t=79. Like I said before it almost has the ability to be a clutch skill, and it has worked in extreme anomaly situations for me, but it's fallen further since hw. I'd like to see the skill get some attention so that it wouldn't be as much of an anomaly, but only a slight tweak so it isn't game breaking, maybe a 700 heal instead of 400, I don't know... I just want it looked at. It's execution doesn't quite make sense anymore (much like half of the old shoulder tackle), but it almost does. The heal isn't even a GCD (and the damage out put through a GCD is so much higher in HW), the cooldown is very long, the potency is so low now compared to everything else. Would also like a further look at BB since HW and how its changed for the better while mug has gotten weaker.

You would feel better? Haymaker doesnt make much sense either you gonna lobby to change that as well? Maybe Dark Passenger too?

I don't see why there is any need to be so condescending and to constantly put words in others mouths, especially when they are just sharing some ideas.
Whatever helps you get through the day, I guess. Gonna go ahead and add you to ignore though as I've got no interest in speaking with someone like that. I'll finish up this post though.


Not sure if you are trolling regarding haymaker/dark passenger, or just like to talk on matters you don't understand/classes you don't play? Implying a 250 potency (can hit multiple targets) ranged attack that blinds for 15 seconds is as weak as mugs heal? What?

Haymaker is also very useful on monk. We don't need to worry about wasting GCD's to flow with our forms so much in PVP due to the massive leniency we get from the insane GL time, this isn't 2014 anymore where every attack would be a struggle to maintain GL. The potency ends up being a reliable high hitting GCD due to it's lack of positionals (sure we hit higher if we can get the positionals, but they are unreliable in pvp) and it has a 12 second 20% slow and can be used pretty much on command through featherfoot when being attacked, and in the feast meta you get regular procs outside of FF. Implying this is as useless as self heal on Mug, eh?

Haymaker doesnt make much sense either you gonna lobby to change that as well? Maybe Dark Passenger too?

If anything Mug needs to be tweaked to give the completeness of the skills you mentioned, if it had the applicable utility of these skills, there wouldn't be a problem. Though I'd wager that'd be way way too much, as I said, it only needs slight tweaking, those are complete, situationally beneficial skills.

Sorry I dont agree with this logic.

It's pretty amazing that the obvious logical conclusion is written right under there for you to easily see (the irony of a Drg begrudging other classes buffs, considering FFXIV's PVP history), yet you choose to ignore this, and come to your own conclusion, which you disagree with! Brilliant.

I guess your reasoning would be:

How about you stop guessing, ignoring whats written, and putting words into peoples mouths.
To reiterate, so theres no misunderstanding; I was just pointing out how rich it is for a Dragoon main to begrudge other classes a buff while they were in god tier for well over a year after receiving a plethora of buffs, while monk barely functioned and didn't get fixed during that entire period.

It was wrong then and they did it anyway

Again it was stupid then

It wasn't wrong, or stupid. They fully fleshed out Dragoon and made it so that it no longer had gaping holes in it's gameplay, it became a joy to use, where as before it was quite frustrating at times. Tweaking skills is never a bad thing, when the end product is a more vibrant and fleshed out PVP. Ideally all classes would be rebalanced completely at the same time, but unfortunately, that doesn't seem to happen, nothing I can do about that.
But that doesn't mean I'll shun any positive changes we get, when there are other unaddressed issues. How they choose to apply pvp updates has nothing to do with me.

Not every ability in the game is gonna be incredibly useful. Believe it or not some are just niche abilities.

Yeah, I can imagine you using this exact justification a year ago against some poor monk asking them to take a look at Shoulder Tackle.



Anyway, I've said all I need to say regarding this Mug issue, far more than I needed to.

Omg what a wall of text. I'm sure no one wants to nor has the time to sit here reading posts after posts of exchanges of that length so I'll try to get to the point here and make this my final post on the matter.

Originally Posted by tehomegaking

Mug Stuff

You can try to spin this however you want but in the end what you are asking for is a buff to the job. A buff that is not addressing any glaring issues for the job. You can choose to ignore the purpose the ability already serves in the game currently (the mat farming) if it doesn't convenience you that's up to you. I am pretty sure if the ability had never existed in the first place you likely would not be here asking for another heal ability anyway considering you have Recouperate, Second Wind and Shadeshift. Anyway yes you are free to suggest as many changes as you want for the job, its what the forum is for, but it does not mean people have to agree with your proposition nor does it mean it must be considered or addressed at all. Balance in this game is already suspect as is, idk how you expect to achieve it if you insist on changing things for the sake of change without addressing any real issue with said change, and with whacked out priorities since the changes to the jobs are almost never done all at once for every job.

Originally Posted by tehomegaking

Dark Passanger/Haymaker stuff

I like how you either conveniently or perhaps out of ignorance omitted the fact that the additional effects of Dark Passenger come only during Dark Arts which was my point. Dark Passanger as well as Dark Dance under dark arts fail hard to have any synergy with Blood Price which is hilarious considering blood price is one of the more predominant abilities used by DRK to sustain the mp needed to dark arts in the first place. The additional effect of those two abilities are contradicting and working against Blood price. Not even gonna bother to reply about the haymaker stuff, if you wanna rely on randomly trying to proc it to get the slow debuff over just using feint on demand then that's just your personal preference. The fact that you are gonna sit here and claim you can proc it on demand with featherfoot is just dumbfounding.

Originally Posted by tehomegaking

It wasn't wrong, or stupid.

Yes , it was wrong and stupid to have no sense of priority in addressing issues and making changes to the jobs, I have no idea how you can possibly defend this. PVP is a competitive mode and as with any competitive sport or activity its success hinges on balance and fair play. You do not promote competition by stacking odds to one side and hindering another, let alone exacerbate the imbalance by further widening the gap. Any changes to DRG should have only been done after MNK's problems at the time were rectified not before.

Originally Posted by tehomegaking

How about you stop guessing, ignoring whats written, and putting words into peoples mouths.
To reiterate, so theres no misunderstanding; I was just pointing out how rich it is for a Dragoon main to begrudge other classes a buff while they were in god tier for well over a year after receiving a plethora of buffs, while monk barely functioned and didn't get fixed during that entire period.

Yeah, I can imagine you using this exact justification a year ago against some poor monk asking them to take a look at Shoulder Tackle.

How about you stop pretending you know me enough to make declarations about what my main is and what I would have told monks when shoulder tackle sucked. There is no way you could know any of that because prior to this thread I had never run into you before. Quite frankly you know as much about me as I know about you which is nothing. Cause if you did know me you would also know that in the wolves den days monk was in fact my main melee when running with my blm friend prevented me from going smn. It wasnt until frontlines i started using drg and even then it was split with whm when the need for heals dictated it.

We can just agree to disagree at this point because clearly there will be no coming to terms. Just as you are free to propose a buff to a job so too are ppl free to disagree with its implementation or need for it. To expect everyone to agree with you is pretty asinine. All I did was disagree with you and explain why I did.