Thread: 3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Somersault is on a 40 second cooldown when traited. As far as cooldowns are concerned, a monk can answer to every aetherflow usage if they're quick enough. This is also more of a detriment to scholar than it is to summoner because having access to only 3 aetherflow usages compared to a possible 6 is a huge hit to their healing potential. At the very least, somersault doesn't need that lowered cooldown.

And I agree, Somersault has too low of a cd. If they want to make it that low of a CD, they should lower GL timer

this gives monks either two options, use spam oip punch and loose GL or keep GL up while using oip once/twice

Originally Posted by xxczx

And I agree, Somersault has too low of a cd. If they want to make it that low of a CD, they should lower GL timer

MNKs have the most detriment when they lose uptime, along with the longest start up time (cooldowns withholding) I think that's what they wanted to avoid. The problem with this (and I mentioned it before) is that it feels really short sighted if that's what they wanted to address that specifically; Instead of just making it easier to rebuild GL stacks through a lowered somersault cooldown, it's also giving them free access to OIP spam all that more often which hugely detriments SMN and MCH (and again, these jobs compared to their peers, BRD/BLM, have arguably stronger/reliable burst, espesically since SMN has very few counterplays to it aside from OIP). If aetherflow isn't affected, then it leaves the question to why MCH ammo/shot procs are still affected (on top of them already having lowered potency, so I can't really say they'd burst better than BRD either).

And as much as the SMNs want to cry foul on aetherflow being removed, I think SCH has more ground to stand on with the current state of their kit. At least n the former, SMN has control on when they use aetherflow to perform their job effectively (leaving up the guesswork to MNK in reaction time). SCH has no luxury since they need aetherflow to active to have a healing presence (otherwise, it's a poor man's burst healing if they popped aetherflow as they needed, something that a WHM can do much more effectively on top of their other tools).

Originally Posted by xxczx

this gives monks either two options, use spam oip punch and loose GL or keep GL up while using oip once/twice

It'd have to be a really tight window to be honest. GL is currently like 12 seconds now? Somersault gives peanut butter for a whooping 6 seconds which is probably around 3 GCDs at max stack. Though wasn't GL also formerly around 10 seconds, you'd need around 5-6 seconds of GCDs to be able to hit your third combo starting from scratch (and IIRC, peanut butter leaves you stanceless after-the-fact)


On a side note, I'm also confused to their approach with removing the healing debuff. If they're afraid it was giving ninja and warrior too much of an edge over their peers, I have to point out, what can a ninja do over monk and dragoon, all things considered? (aside from stealthing with heavy medal, that shite needs to stop) It's less applicable healer pressure and it's no longer a a game factor that healers need to consider now.

Originally Posted by xxczx

GL is 24s in PvP off the top of my head but 14s in PvE. I'm trying to think of what Monk really gives to the team now in PvP and all I can think of is Dragon Kick (which is useless because 9/10 teams roll MCH/BRD), Somersault for healers, Axe Kick to time WAR/melee burst. Nothing really else after this... Their damage is not like NINs/DRGs. We need cooldown time to get our burst back up (Chakra) and if you really want to go full out burst, we need Somersault/Axe kick for ourselves so we can use Tornado Kick.

28 seconds actually, with a damage bonus of 30%. I just took another look at notes, which is pretty damn absurd in consideration with everything else. Honestly speaking, the damage output of a monk is contingent on maintaining GL3, not attaining it, if that makes sense.

I also wouldn't say ninja does more than monk on a typical scenario, considering higher damage buffs (GL3 + twin snacks, and FoF if we're gonna go that further). The cooldown burst also applies to nin and drg as well (or really, any dps that isnt blm). Axe kick also pacifies in an AoE (and is the only pacification that has on-demand access), it's something to consider, MNK's pvp skills are much more effective at shutting down the opposing team on different levelsl DRG only has int reduction on caster dps (and running with your example most teams roll MCH/BRD), and nin having silence, which doesnt prevent ability heals, so long-duration silence isn't as effective as we'd like to think. They also have a bit more self-preservation than ninja does through FoE (10% mitigation, not to scoff at) and third wind /w traited internal release

Originally Posted by Mirili

It's not like they've taken away OIP. They're making ONE buff an exception to dispel. You can still strip damned near everything else. >_>

What would be awesome is to have another job capable of stripping all GL stacks on a 40 sec cooldown cause you know that would give that job purpose >_>. Give it to me as DRG cause all DRGs have going for them is initial burst, battle liteny, and being the disembowel b**ch for brd/mch.

Originally Posted by xxczx

I'm trying to think of what Monk really gives to the team now in PvP and all I can think of is Dragon Kick (which is useless because 9/10 teams roll MCH/BRD), Somersault for healers, Axe Kick to time WAR/melee burst. Nothing really else after this... Their damage is not like NINs/DRGs. We need cooldown time to get our burst back up (Chakra) and if you really want to go full out burst, we need Somersault/Axe kick for ourselves so we can use Tornado Kick.

Trade ya Skewer for Somersault ok?

Also maybe MNK does slightly less than NIN/DRG because they have a positional to all of their weaponskills, but sustained damage is less important than burst. You have 8 OGCDs you can pop as soon as your target reaches 50%, letting you launch an attack almost every second when in GL3. MNKs got great buffs last patch and still you want a pity party? Because you can't shutdown 2 jobs anymore?

Originally Posted by Petite

Trade ya Skewer for Somersault ok?

Also maybe MNK does slightly less than NIN/DRG because they have a positional to all of their weaponskills, but sustained damage is less important than burst. You have 8 OGCDs you can pop as soon as your target reaches 50%, letting you launch an attack almost every second when in GL3. MNKs got great buffs last patch and still you want a pity party? Because you can't shutdown 2 jobs anymore?

Popping 8 oGCDs is nowhere near instantaneous, nor would anyone stay at 50% hp for that long, one way or another.

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Popping 8 oGCDs is nowhere near instantaneous, nor would anyone stay at 50% hp for that long, one way or another.

Petite Poutine> [...] letting you launch an attack almost every second when in GL3.

The point I'm making is that MNKs are more than well equipped to utterly destroy in Feast 4v4 light even if it doesn't apply useful resistance debuffs to synergize with the team. Falz tries to make it look like MNKs are worthless now that they can't directly counter SMN/SCH even though MNKs are everywhere in party queues. Melee DPSes are pretty much on par with each other with MNK being just slightly better because of the amount of off global damage cooldowns they have and the slow from Somersault in my opinion.

Originally Posted by FudoMyoo

YOSHIDA:- YOU FORGOT THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE:

ALLOW US TO SAVE THE PVP SKILL SET FOR EACH JOB!!!!!!!!!!

I had to caps cause I'm so pissed off.

Yes this. I'm pretty sure Yoshi said we would be able to have a pvp point allocation loadout per job in a previous letter.

Originally Posted by Petite

Petite Poutine> [...] letting you launch an attack almost every second when in GL3.

The point I'm making is that MNKs are more than well equipped to utterly destroy in Feast 4v4 light even if it doesn't apply useful resistance debuffs to synergize with the team. Falz tries to make it look like MNKs are worthless now that they can't directly counter SMN/SCH even though MNKs are everywhere in party queues. Melee DPSes are pretty much on par with each other with MNK being just slightly better because of the amount of off global damage cooldowns they have and the slow from Somersault in my opinion.

I'm not arguing that monk is weaker per say, but it's a bit misleading when you're pointing out that they have 8 oGCDs (which isn't instantaneous as I mentioned) and it's execution speed is irrelevant to their GCD. Making a pvp-oriented skill useless in pvp is a stupid change for the sake of balance when there can be other areas that can be addressed (such as making SCH not so contingent on aetherflow for healing performance in pvp. I'm not saying they need to be buffed again, but something like somersault shouldn't have been buffed to begin with (which esperated something like OIP affecting aetherflow, which in all honesty, a SMN can counter play, but SCH doesn't have that luxury)

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

This is a good point and I like the second suggestion it sounds like a nice idea to implement since it would still allow them to use trick attack at the start of skirmishes but not hide with an abundance of medals. However is there a specific reason as to why choose to lock it at 3 stacks that im not thinking of or was that number arbitrary? Cause I'd take ur suggestion except go a little further and say if you have heavy medal debuff period you cannot utilize hide.

It should be to the point where you cant stealth with heavy medal. 150 (75 dropped) medal on a single person is still a hefty amount amount. Even if oyu were to keep the NIN out of play, it's not going to make it any easier for the other team to actually kill anyone because they'd still have a healer and tank, stalling would still be feasible.

Even with detection trying to find a stealth NIN is very unlikely due to the size of the arena and the cooldown on detect (as well as the general lack of non-targetted aoes)