Thread: 3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

Producer and Director Yoshi-P here.
Once more, I want to thank you all for the comments we received following the release of patch 3.25.

In preparation for the beginning of Season One of the Feast’s rated matches, I'd like to talk about some of your feedback, as well as the changes we have planned for patch 3.26.

System Changes

Casting Interruptions

Following the release of patch 3.22, we received a tremendous amount of feedback regarding the changes to spell casting functionality. The most commonly expressed opinion was:

“You should reduce the damage threshold for interruption from 15% to 10% of max HP.”

It also became clear to us that, because we were using a simple calculation based on max HP, healers and casters were gravitating towards a strategy of using vitality accessories to reduce the risk of being interrupted, even if it resulted in decreased attack and healing magic potency.

However, we are concerned that merely reducing the interruption threshold to 10% of max HP, without changing the underlying design, may once more make it too easy for casting to be interrupted, as well as have little effect on the usage of vitality accessories. Therefore, after careful consideration of your feedback, we have decided to change spell casting functionality as follows:

The damage required to interrupt casting will be determined by the caster’s item level.

It is our intention that a player’s max HP will not affect this set amount of damage, which will be calculated for PvP content that is item level synced to either IL 80 or IL 150. In other words, the threshold to interrupt casting will be automatically calculated based on item and class/job level, and will be unaffected by HP boosting buffs and vitality accessories.

I understand that this may be harder to grasp than a simple calculation based on max HP. However, if we were to retain the original functionality, we believe it would have little effect on the usage of vitality accessories and other strategies to increase max HP.

While the precise calculations in use will not be made public, you may think of it as though a caster can be interrupted if you deal roughly 15% of their max HP before any increases from vitality accessories and other methods are taken into account.

As always, we welcome your feedback, and look forward to hearing what you have to say after the changes go live.

PvP Ratings and Matchmaking

We also received a lot of feedback regarding the rating and matchmaking systems. In particular, many of you were worried about being matched with opponents of a significantly higher or lower rank. I touched on this issue briefly during the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XXVIII, when I explained how we had intentionally expanded the matchmaking range for the preseason so that players could take part in more matches.

Patch 3.26 will see the start of Season One, and at that time we will be changing the matchmaking algorithm to ensure that you are more likely to be matched with player in the same or an adjacent tier, and only within a range of three tiers (For example, a match might include players from the bronze, silver, and gold tiers only).

However, as this will increase matchmaking times, we are currently debating whether or not we should expand the range of eligible players if a given period of time passes without finding enough participants. At the moment, we do not wish to utilize this solution, as ideally we would like all matches to be held within the same tier. We are considering our options for Season Two, and would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

We are also planning to make several adjustments to the rating system so that, when in a lower tier, a player’s PvP rating will increase by a larger amount when they win a match, and decrease by a smaller amount when they lose a match. This will make it easier for players to advance to higher tiers, and make it harder for them to be demoted.

Heavy Medal

With the release of patch 3.22, a stack of Heavy Medal went from increasing damage received by 10% to 15%─a change which many of you believed might have gone too far. Some on the dev team also thought it might be too high as well, as the flow of battle usually results in players filling their adrenaline gauges in the latter half of the match, which could place teams that gather medals early or midway through at a disadvantage, making it easy for their opponents to mount a last minute comeback.

To address this concern, with patch 3.26, a stack of Heavy Medal will increase damage received by 12% (currently 15%). We will also be adjusting the medal counts at which players incur another stack of Heavy Medal.

• 1st stack: 150 → 150 15% → 12%
• 2nd stack: 170 → 170 30% → 24%
• 3rd stack: 190 → 190 45% → 36%
• 4th stack: 200 → 200 60% → 48%
• 5th stack: 210 → 210 75% → 60%
• 6th stack: 220 → 220 90% → 72%
• 7th stack: 230 → 225 105% → 84%
• 8th stack: 240 → 230 120% → 96%
• 9th stack: 250 → 240 135% → 108%
• 10th stack: 　─ → 250 ─ 　→ 120%

Our hope is that this rebalancing will encourage players to collect medals, while still ensuring that those who carry large quantities are still impacted.

Adrenaline Rush

For patch 3.25 we made adjustments to the HP and placement of adrenaline, and many of you commented that this gave you more opportunities to use adrenaline rush. However, we also received feedback from players who wanted to use adrenaline rush more without relying on adrenaline kits. Therefore, we will be increasing the rate at which the adrenaline gauge fills.

For 4 on 4 matches, the accumulation rate will be increased by approximately 30%, and for 8 on 8 matches, it will be roughly double the current rate.

Moreover, until now, the adrenaline gauge only filled when the player was engaged in combat. As a result, when players were KO’d, they could no longer accrue adrenaline, placing their team at a disadvantage.

To address this issue, we will be making it so that the adrenaline gauge fills even when the player is not engaged in combat. Because teams will have the option to utilize adrenaline rush at roughly the same time, they will have to carefully consider the timing of their actions, which should lead to more interesting tactics.

In addition, many of you provided feedback that the duration of the animation lock following the use of Empyrean Rain was too long, and so we have decided to shorten it.

Job-specific Changes

Of course, the greatest amount of feedback we received related to various jobs and their abilities. We would like to thank you all for your many detailed suggestions.

With patch 3.26 we will be making the following adjustments:

Black Mage

• Sleep
  Duration: 15s → 12s (PvP only)
  
  
• Night Wing
  Duration: 10s → 8s (Enhanced Night Wing II: 15s → 12s)

Sleep is highly effective at turning the tide of battle, and players found it stressful to be repeatedly afflicted with sleep and unable to act. For players with Sleep Resistance, the duration will be halved (6s for Sleep and Enhanced Night Wing II, 4s for Night Wing).

White Mage

• Repose
  Duration: 15s → 8s
  Duration halved with successive uses (8s → 4s → 2s)

Fluid Aura followed by repeated Repose was judged to be overpowered, and so we decided to adjust Repose while leaving Fluid Aura as-is.

Machinist

• Between the Eyes
  Potency: 150 → 120 (Enhanced Between the Eyes II: 180 → 150)

As touched upon in the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part XXVIII, we determined that Machinist burst damage was a bit high.

Dark Knight

We received a great deal of feedback from players who felt that dark knight was lacking in both offensive and defensive capabilities when compared to paladin and warrior, and to address these concerns we will be making the following changes.

• Dark Arts
  Recast Time: 5s → 3s (PvP and PvE)
  
  
• Tar Pit
  Potency: 200 → 250 (Enhanced Tar Pit II: 240 → 300)
  Recast Time: 150s → 120s (Enhanced Tar Pit: 120s → 90s)
  HP Absorption: 20% → 150% (Enhanced Tar Pit III: 40% → 200%)
  
  
• Carnal Chill
  Recast Time: 120s → 90s (Enhanced Carnal Chill: 90s → 60s)
  Damage Penalty: 10% → 40% (Enhanced Carnal Chill III: 20% → 60%)
  Duration: 20s → 6s

Tar Pit should now function as a self-preservation technique, and Carnal Chill as a way to quickly lower the damage dealing capabilities of opponents. Also, while Carnal Chill’s duration has been shortened, recast times for these abilities have been reduced, which should enable players to employ them more effectively. These changes are intended to make dark knight function as a tank that can protect himself and his allies through debuffs and health absorption.

Warrior

• Storm's Eye
  HP recovery decrease not available in PvP areas

Warriors can be highly competitive in prolonged engagements due to their preeminent burst damage among tanks, and their ability to reduce slashing resistance with Storm’s Eye. However, these offensive capabilities, when combined with their HP recovery debuff, led us to determine that they overpowered, and so we have decided to remove this component of their attack in PvP.

Ninja

• Dancing Edge
  HP recovery decrease not available in PvP areas
  
  
• Fetter Ward
  Can now be used by Rogue / Ninja

Ninjas, like warriors, possess a strong advantage in prolonged engagements due to their HP recovery debuff, and so we have decided to remove this component of their attack in PvP as well. However, compared to other melee DPS, it is more dangerous for them to utilize adrenaline rush, which is why we have decided to make Fetter Ward available to them.

Dragoon

• Feint
  Duration: 10s → 6s (Enhanced Feint: 20s → 10s)
  
  
• Skewer
  Duration: 10s → 6s (Enhanced Skewer II: 15s → 10s)

Feint is often utilized as an additional action in PvP, and many players found it frustrating to deal with due to its effectiveness. Skewer’s INT reducing ability was adjusted as part of overall balancing.

Summoner / Scholar

• Aetherflow
  Effect can no longer be removed by enemy attacks (*Edited to clarify at 10:42 a.m.)

We received a tremendous amount of feedback from players regarding this very issue. After careful consideration, we decided that it was unacceptable that players could prevent the usage of an ability required for so many job actions.

Although Season One of the Feast begins with patch 3.26, if we determine that there are significant balance issues or differences in job capabilities, we are prepared to make adjustments immediately, even if it falls within the season.

We’re looking forward to receiving more feedback from you all throughout the course of the upcoming season. Until then, please look forward to opening day!


* French and German versions of this post will be released when they are finalized. We thank you for your understanding.

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

...It also became clear to us that, because we were using a simple calculation based on max HP, healers and casters were gravitating towards a strategy of using vitality accessories to reduce the risk of being interrupted, even if it resulted in decreased attack and healing magic potency.

This is the case because getting those casts off are very well worth the hit to potency (in relation to just how potent the casted spells are, espesically from a perspective of WHM and BLM). I agree it shouldn't be so easily interrupted, but it shouldn't be so loose to the point that a melee can stay on you and still not meet the threshold to interrupt (which is frequently the case, doubly so with the defense buff)

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

PvP Ratings and Matchmaking


However, as this will increase matchmaking times, we are currently debating whether or not we should expand the range of eligible players if a given period of time passes without finding enough participants. At the moment, we do not wish to utilize this solution, as ideally we would like all matches to be held within the same tier. We are considering our options for Season Two, and would like to hear your thoughts on the matter.

There's no other way to say this; if you want ranks to actually mean anything (such as seasonal rewards), there has to be some form of restrictions to the match making. Even if it comes at the cost of cutting down queue pops...keep in mind that if we're talking ranked games, I'm sure the players are playing to win to increase and maintain their rank, not for fun.. High ranked players should not be able to gain a good amount of ratings from defeating lower rank players to overshoot the higher ranked ones, etc etc.

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Heavy Medal

[INDENT]With the release of patch 3.22, a stack of Heavy Medal went from increasing damage received by 10% to 15%─a change which many of you believed might have gone too far. Some on the dev team also thought it might be too high as well, as the flow of battle usually results in players filling their adrenaline gauges in the latter half of the match, which could place teams that gather medals early or midway through at a disadvantage, making it easy for their opponents to mount a last minute comeback.

The problem with this is that the tanks are frequently much too durable to be killed even at as high as a 50% damage reduction. This has always been the problem. Although this does address a little bit to how fragile how non-tanks can be when they are picking up medals.

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Job-specific Changes

Of course, the greatest amount of feedback we received related to various jobs and their abilities. We would like to thank you all for your many detailed suggestions.

With patch 3.26 we will be making the following adjustments:



Black Mage

• Sleep
  Duration: 15s → 12s (PvP only)
  
  
• Night Wing
  Duration: 10s → 8s (Enhanced Night Wing II: 15s → 12s)

Sleep is highly effective at turning the tide of battle, and players found it stressful to be repeatedly afflicted with sleep and unable to act. For players with Sleep Resistance, the duration will be halved (6s for Sleep and Enhanced Night Wing II, 4s for Night Wing).

White Mage

• Repose
  Duration: 15s → 8s
  Duration halved with successive uses (8s → 4s → 2s)

Fluid Aura followed by repeated Repose was judged to be overpowered, and so we decided to adjust Repose while leaving Fluid Aura as-is.

Most of the inherent problems in regards to WHM and BLM has broken through because of the interrupt changes. The sleep duration was (and probably still is at 12 seconds) still incredibly long. Even if you consider sleep resistance, it's 1 second in change. The inbalance is also in regards to what these jobs can do relative to their peers (BLM to SMN/MCH/BRD, and WHM to SCH/AST). The fact is, SCH and AST have very little, if any, forms of CC or self preserverence compared to WHM, especially when the latter has both a sleep and knockback+bind.

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Machinist

• Between the Eyes
  Potency: 150 → 120 (Enhanced Between the Eyes II: 180 → 150)

As touched upon in the 28th PLL, we determined that Machinist burst damage was a bit high.

A bit high relative to who? BRD, SMN and BLM? (which honestly where it should be compared for the most part, because you can't take a melee over a MCH in feast). This drops their potential potency from 540 to 450, that's a 90 difference. Compared to BRD who has 660 through empyreal barrage (albeit it can't crit), sidewinder, misery's end and farshot versus reassembled cleaner shot, ricochet, heart breaker and gauss round. This is also not taking into consideration that MCH's damage outside of burst can be really poor even compared to BRD, on top of having relatively weak self-preservation skills compared to their peers. On top of that, some changes also indirectly nerf MCH (again, relative to other ranged) and give BRD more of a utility advantage, which is more expanded later.

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Dark Knight

[*]Carnal Chill
Recast Time: 120s → 90s (Enhanced Carnal Chill: 90s → 60s)
Damage Penalty: 10% → 40% (Enhanced Carnal Chill III: 20% → 60%)
Duration: 20s → 6s

Carnal chill does it job through a debuff, meaning it can be cleansed such, trade off is that it only affects a single target and those around it. It does it's job well enouigh that a well placed chill can mitigate the opposing teams burst, but at the same time it has a counter play of it being cleansed, though the specific one I want to bring up is BRD's warden's peaen. This has always been something that BRD had over MCH as an edge, and with the changes to carnal chill, it gives them another layer of counterplay over what MCH has (again, in relation to the nerf specific to MCH burst, while on it's own wouldn't be too big, it does make it a little bit undesirable to other ranged dps in consideration of other changes)

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Ninja


[*]Fetter Ward
Can now be used by Thief / Ninja

Ninjas, like Warriors, possess a strong advantage in prolonged engagements due to their HP recovery debuff, and so we have decided to remove this component of their attack in PvP as well. However, compared to other melee DPS, it is more dangerous for them to utilize adrenaline rush, which is why we have decided to make Fetter Ward available to them.

One thing I need to bring up with fetter ward is that it makes it impossible for a MCH burst to go out for the duration that it's available (which can rule out bursting out the melee dps at the start of an engagement). Giving them fetter ward on the basis that it's dangerous for them to use adrenaline rush (which I really hope isn't their only line of reasoning) is incredibly short sighted for any balance change. Ninjas already have the benefit of being able to stealth to safely get first hits in (which honestly I think they need to make some more adjustments for it to be more influential in a PvP match, for the right reasons, more on that later).

There's also no mention of how ninjas can stealth with heavy medal. There is already a scarce amount of free-use AoE and stealth detection in PvP, which works to stealth's advantage. That being said though, the fact that a ninja can stealth while hoarding medals is a problem of it's own. Especially with how big the playing field is.

Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Summoner / Scholar

We received a tremendous amount of feedback from players regarding this very issue. After careful consideration, we decided that it was unacceptable that players could prevent the usage of an ability required for so many job actions.

If you're going to do this with aetherflow, then why not MCH procs and ammo? It's more core to their burst than people would think when they need two different buffs to be able to do so (cleaner shot which allows them to use a 180 potency hit, and reassemble to guaranteed a crit). Though I'm on the side of keeping it the way it is (and in response, buff SCH so they're not as so contingent on aetherflow for healing effectiveness) because it just makes something like 1-ilm even more niche than it already is (do we have a problem with a skill that's oriented to PvP to be working in PvP?)

Originally Posted by AdamZ

Is that a true comp? Between the eyes on off GCD, while an empyreal barrage in on GCD. And Mech's have Rapid Fire which is close to empyreal barrage. Rapid Fire when paired with Reload and Gauss Round is also 660 potency... Or am I not understanding something?

All I know, a good Bard on the other team, does not scare me the way a good Mech does.

They're both really close in damage really and capable of bursting down people, but while BRD has less of an instantaneous kick to it, they also have better self-preservation, self heals and peaeon (espesically since there's now another debuff that's worht and should be cleansed, carnal chill), as well as arguably better healer pressure through DoTs and bloodletter. Nerfing MCH burst compared to BRD is essentially nerfing the only real edge they really had comparatively. Then you have OIP removing ammo and shot procs if the MCH is being focused or locked then. I'm not saying BRD has the stronger burst between the two, but BRD also brings more to the table than MCH can outside of those bursts..

Originally Posted by AdamZ

So that has a total Pot of 660+170+250 (assuming both dots up) for a total of 1,080

Empyreal barrage is 660, farshot is 240, you have sidewinder for 250, and bloodletter for 150. That's 1300 with a setup that requires 2 DoTs and all instant casts.

Originally Posted by AdamZ

Now if we follow the same idea, one GCD, two off GCD's for Mech you get:
Between the Eyes 450
Gauss Round with ammo on GCD 220
A Rapid Fire Gauss Round with ammo for 660 (off GCD)
Total 1,330

Clean shot /w ammo and reassemble = 220 + 50% = ~330
Gauss round = 200
Ricochet assuming no other targets = 300
Between the Eyes (after change) 450
That totals 1280.

I'm also not sure where you're getting 660 from with "rapid fire + gauss round", because gauss round is an oGCD ability and doesn't have it's potency boosted by ammo.

Originally Posted by AdamZ

Nor does that need two gcd's to set up.

Depending on what shots you want to have lined up for your burst, you need to ready up procs for clean shot and slug shot which are GCD skills.

Originally Posted by AdamZ

Not saying Bards are not good, and any really good player is going to make you go damn it in solo-que. But a really good Mech, with that Pot? Brown Pants.

I don't think you know how MCH works, because some of the things you're saying doesn't add up, specifically gauss round. All rapid fire does is make your weaponskill casts instant and reduces GCD to 1 second, not triple anything like barrage does.

So... with a few games in today for the season here is my verdict on Feast Solo Que at the moment:

All the changes that were added are decent. Good Job on that part Square Enix.

Still I dont feel it. This mode is won by the better healer in 85 % of all the matches. The best way to ensure winning in Solo Que is being an exceptional healer. Being a good DD or Tank on the other hand is nice, but wont influence the outcome of the match as drastically.

At the end of the season I think the top Solo Que players will mostly be healers for that reason.

Suggestion: Maybe try to break the rankings up per Job so we dont have the best player per datacenter, but the best player in a specific Job per Datacenter.