Thread: 3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

Originally Posted by Eul

Is it only me or the BLM's Fire and Blizzard 4 really useless in pvp? Long cast, gated by enochian, rarely to hit people who run.

I kill people with fire IV a lot, it's not always easy to use it because of LoS but it's absolutely doable. And I see other BLMs do it so...

I would like to give some feedback after having played the Feast on multiples jobs;

MNK : Being able to remove all 3 stacks of Aetherflow with one attack is too much, especially for SCH, as it struggles enough already. I'm fine with Retrogradation and Wither to remove all 3 but since it's possible to spam One Ilm Punch or at least to use it regularly, it's too threatening for SCH and SMN to have a big part of their healing/dps so easily shut down. Please make One Ilm Punch remove only one stack of Aetherflow at a time.

SMN : After seeing the recent changes in action, Tri-Bind needs to be restored to 12 sec, this change made little sense. SMN needs a good CC skill since it's a very defenseless class.

I read that the matchmaking actually puts you with people with a lower rank to even things out...I sure hope this isn't true... I see too many people without pvp experience pop in, sure it's only preseason but it completely ruins the fun of pvp, as you want a challenge, not being crushed in 30 sec or crush the others in 30 sec. (Okay crushing people in 30 sec is fun, but not so fun when it happens to you). I reached 1 k points, failed to qualify for Silver rank and deranked to 800... Can't blame it all on others but it's probably a big part of why it happened. I wouldn't mind if the solo queue stays as is for ranking when seasons come out, but at least make 4 vs 4 premades mode count too, that way we can avoid some frustration.

Originally Posted by Neuflune

Logging in to point this out as well, basically. Especially the change to Tri-bind. Why was that even necessary? BLM's Sleep remains untouched, and that one prevents any action or movement. Tri-bind only prevents movement, so why was it even nerfed?

Bind also prevents turning, which is just as detrimental to non-healers since they need to be be facing their target. 12 seconds (let alone 6) is way too long for CC in something trying to be as fast paced as this. Though I also agree that it's outrageous that they left BLM and WHM's CC durations alone (especially when BLM also has a bind that's still 12 seconds)

Originally Posted by Neuflune

. If they're poking one job's CC, they should poke similar CC in other jobs. Otherwise they should leave it alone and just adjust potencies/ticks if the problem was burst DPS.

More or less, especially in relation to the interrupt changes, the CCs that come from a BLM/WHM is far too powerful to leave alone, espesically when the counterlay to that is either stun lock (which leaves only paladin to be the reliable one) silence (scarcely available in the game) or having two dps stay on them the entire time to push that damage threshold (where it's essentially meta defining, esp with a WHM/BLM combo). My point is that bind isn;t any less detrimental than sleep, and adjustments to CC duration is needed in general if they're doing away with their weaknesses (which are typically associated with cast times or a relatively long cooldown)

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

I bet, Paladins have a very overlooked burst...

Even then, a paladin really would not be solo killing anyone unless the other healer was extremely bad. They have to choose between dpsing or using a stun (that isn't their PvP skill) due to shield bash being a weaponskill. It's overlooked, but it's not anything to write home about either, unless you're a nocturnal AST.

Of course, DRK has a very short lived burst that's easily exhausted by their mana pool, on top of having very few influential skills compared to the other two tanks.

Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Even then, a paladin really would not be solo killing anyone unless the other healer was extremely bad..

I have personally seen a Paladin drop Divine Veil, pop FoF, and drop a monk from 100-0 before a healer could do anything, granted he had 6 medal stacks, but that's just good strat on the Pally's part.

Checked the combat log after the match, FoF, Combo'd into Royal Authority and weaved in FS, GS, and SW with the coup de grace Mercy Stroke. Well played Tortuga imo.

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

I have personally seen a Paladin drop Divine Veil, pop FoF, and drop a monk from 100-0 before a healer could do anything, granted he had 6 medal stacks, but that's just good strat on the Pally's part.

Checked the combat log after the match, FoF, Combo'd into Royal Authority and weaved in FS, GS, and SW with the coup de grace Mercy Stroke. Well played Tortuga imo.

That's 6 stacks though, you're literally looking at a 90% damage taken penalty and I'd be surprised if that monk could survive any form of burst from a non-healer, especially if full swing was factored into that (though I'm not sure if you meant he did it before or after RA). I get what you're trying to point out, but I don't feel thats a good example of how capable a paladin burst is; again my point is that it's not particularly anything to write home about when talking relatively, especially when they can't do both stuns and burst combos through RA at the same time.

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Hence, the "granted" in my original post. I'm not looking to debate, I'm just saying Paladins can and have a 7.5 second burst when the situation unfolds, and no one expects it when it drops you. That poor Monk didn't see it coming.

Well, I mean if you're at 6 stacks as a dps, you should be expecting to drop like a brick regardless of who the attacker is (excluding healers). Tank or not, tank stance or not, you'd have to be expecting some serious damage coming your way.

Originally Posted by NoelNoel

the complaining has always been "the SMN burst happens too fast and is too easy to execute", which was answered with a senseless nerf to Painflare, Energey Drain and Deathflare.

More accurately, it was a lot of damage relative to what was needed behind it and the weaknesses behind it. For BRd/MCH, they were cast times as well as a ranged penalty. For melee, it's the equviliant of sticking their hands in a blender. For BLM, they have no burst on the go. SMN has none of this, on top of a lower effective cooldown.

Originally Posted by NoelNoel

Like, have you ever seen the burst of a DRG, a MCH or a BRD? All 3 have pretty much (when played by people who actually know how to play these) a burst which is not only even more potent but, for DRG, even longer.

The bolded statement really has no meaning when you're talking class balance. And even then, in the hands of a capable SMN can still be just as powerful, if not moreso than those job's because of the AoE damage (which is an utter nightmare for nocturnal AST)

Originally Posted by NoelNoel

The only advantage of the SMN burst being that it could be executed every 60 sec (if not halted by a MNK...).

They also have CCs that are independent of aetherflow or being in melee range. Tri-bind is was a very powerful lockdown and no one would realistically waste purify on it.

Originally Posted by NoelNoel

Now I dislike being paired with SMNs in 4vs 4 because I find their killing capabilities unreliable. The solution to their burst was imo to simply extend the pvp cooldown of Tri-Disaster to say, 90 sec and give a shared 3-5 sec GCD to all Aetherflow skills (while respecting the normal CD of each). This would have put SMN on a fairer burst page.

That's actually worse of a nerf to SMN than what they got now, I'm not sure on your intentions.