Thread: 3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

Biggest problem with Job rankings is probably measuring it specifically... We can't even get AP to be Job based so I sincerely doubt they can measure rating based on Jobs... They'd basically have to have us register to enter ranked (similar to how we register to enter Triple Triad Tournaments?) and then lock that to whatever Job we registered as...

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

The job rankings is interesting but then you could end up being ranked on jobs like drk solely because you are one of only a handful of ppl masochistic enough to use the job in the first place.

Isn't that kind of the point? I'd imagine it would promote using Jobs like Dark Knight (which in turn could have people other than me ranting about its flaws) since there would be less competition. I imagine it would balance out, more so if we're locked to a single Job (and given how AP still is I'm almost certain we would be). People would see the early rankings and a lot of competition on certain Jobs, and perhaps move to another one.

Another reason I'd also opt for; Top 100 - Trophy. Top 10 - Gear. Top 1 - ???. There might not be much competition for Dark Knights, but you'd need to be in the top 10 to get the proper rewards.

Originally Posted by Februs

As for Ranking rewards being separated by jobs, how would you guys propose this be done?

Ideally I'd like to see something on the scale of the old Hamlet Defense system;

Kills +
Assists +
Deaths -
Stuns + (actual Stuns, where you interrupt something, this can be measured in PvE for Limit Break building, no reason it can't be here)
Stuns - (just building Stun resist, stop it FFS, might be a bit iffy when it comes to non-casters though)
Sleep/Bind +
Breaking Sleep/Bind -
Collecting Medals +
Holding Medals for X time +
Losing X Medals -

Stuff like that, obviously I'm not going to work exact values in there, but you get the idea. All of that is tallied, all completely transparently so you can look at it and go "Oh, I get points for using Sleep? Better start using Sleep then", then the final result acts as either a bonus or multiplier. Did really well but just got outplayed in the end? That's less punishing than straight up sucking from the start. Your team won, but all you did was Hide in the corner with Medals or die a lot? Hopefully you'll lose rating. That's one reason why I'd want a multiplier, if you end up getting a negative score because you sucked, but your team still carries you through, that multiplier increases your negative score. Being carried actively harms your rating that way...

IMO, this is the kind of system that would be ideal for rating. Does it make it easier to advance? Probably, so what though? It makes it easier for everyone. The only issue is if you just slapped that on the current season. Paladins and Black Mages would have an obvious advantage since they can do a lot of Stun and Sleep/Bind respectively. That's why I'd prefer Job based rankings. You can have a system like this then, because it doesn't matter if Paladins earn more because they have Stun on GCD, Paladins are fighting each other for the #1 spot, not the entire data center.

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Ranking by roles I think would dampen this noticeably and overall make the rankings more meaningful than if you did it by jobs.

I really don't think they should do ranking by roles... All that will do is highlight how utterly imbalanced certain Jobs are... If they can balance everything then great, but part of the reason I'd suggest Job based rankings is that it lets you postpone that. Warrior versus Dark Knight is pretty much unfair, but Dark Knight versus Dark Knight is entirely balanced.

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Unless you are gonna slash it to something like ranking it as the top 5 for each job.

Kinda? Right now we have the top 100 getting gear, the top 10 getting a crown, and the top 1 getting a piece of worthless furniture.

Switch that to Job based rankings, and I'd say the top 100 get a worthless piece of furniture (meaning 1,300 per data center), because that wont be hard at all. The top 10 get the gear (130 per data center, close to the current 100), while the top 1 gets something else. Right now that would be the crown, in future I'd suggest something like a unique weapon. The most balanced way to work it I guess would be for the top 8 to get the gear? That would mean 104 sets of gear going out. Top 5 would only result in 65 sets of gear.

It depends on how many people actually play a given Job... Do we actually have those numbers? Obviously it can be adjusted, but even something like the top 10 Dark Knights doesn't seem to diminish the gear that much IMO... We'd go from 100 sets of that gear, to 130, and that isn't considering the possibility of tailoring the gear for specific Jobs/roles like they've done for solo/party. Getting a trophy would be incredibly easy, but is that a reward anyone particularly cares about?

Yes it would be easier to get the gear by jumping on something like Dark Knight, but how many others would have that idea? We'd see the rankings for day one, perhaps a lot of Warriors and only 5 Dark Knights, so people switch over for that low hanging fruit, then suddenly we've got a lot more Dark Knights. The community in general would also be completely aware of this kind of meta, if you see someone in the Dark Knight specific coat for the top 10, and you know only 9 people even bothered with Dark Knight on your data center, you're not going to take that seriously. Meanwhile if you see a Warrior with the #1 Great Axe equipped, and you know there were over 100 Warriors fighting for that? Yeah...

Perhaps I am being biased when i say I want more people to have the outfit because of the previous rank removal on other pvp gear?

Anyway, its Day2 of Ranking and the flaws of the system are starting to show, if you notice a majority of people in solo ranking have 50-60% percentiles in the top 30 showing just how flawed raw wins are in a RNG composition (a good premade wouldn't be near this percentile) and to me that is disheartening.

As for Nalien, how would it compensate for a match being too short or too long? If you make a system based on hitting thresholds in different area, then time would be a huge factor

Originally Posted by xTysonx

Anyway, its Day2 of Ranking and the flaws of the system are starting to show, if you notice a majority of people in solo ranking have 50-60% percentiles in the top 30 showing just how flawed raw wins are in a RNG composition (a good premade wouldn't be near this percentile) and to me that is disheartening.

The fact the top solo-queue players are having 50-60% is healthy. Matchmaking is doing its job if it can pit players against each other to the point where they can only win half the time, which is supposed to allude to equal skill and chance of winning.

In fact, if you look at a competitive game such as LoL, you'll see even the best players have a win rate that's close to that. Fact is, if you have and maintain a consistent win rate that's at the very least above 50%, even if it's just 51%, you'll make it to the top just due to the law of really big numbers in this case.

Also, the reason you don't see good premades with this chance is because your average premade is not composed of avid, experiennced, coordinated PvPers. Now, if FFXIV were a game with an actual PvP scene, you wouldn't see these premades run as rampant as you do with their sky-high +90% winrate.

Originally Posted by xTysonx

It drops as normal, even if you go below 500. If you lose too many matches on any rank above bronze and fall under the min. then it will demote you as well

Dammit. I typed all of this stuff out, but accidentally clicked the wrong button. I'll just shorten it.

A. Do you have to participate in the qualifier again if you're demoted or can you just raise your points to automatically bring yourself back to silver (or whatever)?
B. Is there a demotion period like the qualifier where you have to win 3 out of 5 matches to keep your rank or do you just drop back down?

EDIT: Also, do rankings only update every week? I thought it would be every day, but I guess they're keeping the same format they had for Frontline and stuff, huh?