Thread: 3.2 PvP: Feast Game Mode Discussion Thread.

Originally Posted by Koltik

That's not how CC resist materia works. It decreases the duration, doesn't give you a flat-out chance to resist.

Which is why it should be re-implemented. I'd love to be able to meld the eff out of my gear with sleep/bind resist, even if the hard cap was 2 seconds, sleeps would be 13/10/4 etc. In a perfect world right? xD

Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

The main issue with Morale is that it gives a cheap ilvl bump to create a gear wall between entry-level players and people who Play PVP Religiously, and it's not very fun to be on the wrong side of that exchange. That's why SE effectively deleted it, since every popular PVP mode uses ilvl sync (negating Morale).

That's actually not exactly why or how the Morale stat disappeared.

Morale didn't work this way back before 2.4. Before patch 2.4 (the Shiva patch) Morale actually directly effected your attack and defense power within PvP settings. Level sync did not effect that increase the same way. Further, level sync was almost irrelevant, as the general item level at that time was substantially lower. The stats on the PvP gear meant a lot more, because you weren't vastly above the cap when wearing any of the gear (including PvE gear). Average item level was only around 90-100 at the time.

After 2.4, they changed the morale stat to provide a flat increase to item levels which dramatically watered down the PvP environment. With the addition of Ironworks and Dreadwyrm gear, the PvP gear became completely obsolete because it no longer did anything special over what you were already getting with top end PvE sets. They did this almost exclusively because Secure and Slaughter were the most popular game modes at the time, and the previous Morale stat tipped the playing field towards the veteran players. By changing the stat allocation to a flat item level increase, they basically leveled the playing field in Secure/Slaughter so that casual players wouldn't be flat out destroyed by seasoned PvP'ers, many of whom ran in Pre-made groups at the time. It made sense, but it didn't do anything healthy for the game mode on the whole. To keep PvP queues alive (and by "alive" I mean shuffling out of the grave with two rotting fingers) they sacrificed an entire stat, materia, and a huge chunk of gear. That said, it did allow for casuals to play the game mode without fear of being squashed by hardcore pvp'ers just looking at them.

It's for that exact reason, though, that I specified Ranked modes for Morale, only. I'm not recommending that Morale players get to face up against non-morale players. I'm recommending that it be implemented specifically in a game mode in which you are faced against other players who are just as committed and interested in winning as you are. Personally, I would love to see Morale returned to it's previous status of directly increasing attack and defense, but if they insist on keeping it an item level thing than the level sync for Ranked modes should also be adjusted (or even flat out removed).

Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

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This is the way morale works now but the original way it worked is why it was kept out then later changed. An ilvl bump is kind of meaningless. Especially the later into the patch cycle we are.

Originally Posted by l---------------l

Please, remove morale.

If morale would have any real effect and impact, it'd kill the customization in PVP, KILL CUSTOMIZATION...

I totally get what you are saying, and use my own mix on multiple classes, but if they implement morale properly, we'd want to use pvp gear.
Currently the only time PVE gear is good for pvp, it mustn't have high secondary accuracy, parry, or determination(170/180 aiming boots come to mind)

If they reworked iSync, pvp gear to avoid high secondary det( make it crit/skillspell speed) and to a lesser extent accuracy(accuracy cap is super low, 1-2 low secondary accuracy pieces are sufficient-looking at you i205 fending accessories) and morale properly, you'd be aiming to gain wolf marks because pvp gear would ultimately be BiS.

Iphone contd.

I mentioned earlier a scalig bonus system for morale. In such a system, you'd want to stack morale to hit the next bonus level. Now I wish whoever was assigning pvp gear stats on the dev team actually pvp'd with the classes to see how different stats work with the way the class was played. If a melee dps left side had all high secondaries Crit/skill speed with low secondary determination that covered the caps for 150 sync, we'd want to use them, and get the marks to buy them. Reserve accuracy to low secondaries for right side, and that gives players customization options. Some healers will run Vit specs to utilize casting int accessories, some will mix/match int/vit. Some dps might take Vit to survive early till they have full left side pvp or more ap.

Originally Posted by Iagainsti

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Another noteworthy point is that re-implementing the Morale System, in some form or another, would encourage SE to take a long hard look at PvP gear on the whole.

With Feast, SE is already taking PvP updates seriously. It still needs work, obviously, but they're putting in an effort. They're asking for feedback. They have future plans for the mode. They've already made several adjustments (though more tweaking is needed) Etc. These are things that almost never happened in the 2.x patch cycle; so, it's a huge improvement to see them now. PvP gear, however, is still lack luster.

Since the ilvl 110 sets, the gear has been getting more and more generic in design and it lacks any practical use. With the death of Morale came the death of PvP gear sets, and with the death of our gear sets came the death of the Wolf Mark currency. The only real use most people got out of it was de-synthesizing PvP gear to turn a profit. I don't think I need to point out how pitiful that is. I still think that they should vastly expand the Vendor selections, but even if they only re-implemented Morale, it would at least give us a reason to use our Wolf Marks. Further, the way they chose to implement Morale can make all the difference. Personally, I'm not a fan of a straight item level increase for a few reasons, but that's not the only option. The old stat bonus could be revived. It could bolster PVP actions. It could change resistances, or the bonus provided might be different on a piece by piece basis on a job by job basis. There are a lot of possibilities here, and those possibilities could potentially provide far more options for customizing our PvP kits rather than just running in the highest currently available gear, which is pretty much what everyone does right now.

For fk's sake SE please do something about this nonsense of Monk's being able to remove a fundamental and core ability of scholars. I am not a sch and even I can see how incredibly ridiculous this is. The amount of griefing schs endure must be immeasurable as no one wants to see them on their team let alone if there is a monk on the other side of the arena. Even worse was this buff that was given to monks via somersault. I understand the mindset of it was probably to have that spell speed reduction counter the 15% HP spellcasting threshhold, as well as to compensate for the fact that monks attacks are fast but weak compared to say DRG to break that threshhold, but by doing this you are figuratively flipping off schs. Perfect balance every 40 seconds when aetherflow recast is 60 seconds like wtf. I feel bad for the abuse schs get, as many will suffer verbal abuse from ignorant players screaming "wheres my cures?!", when its not even their fault that their job has this handicap and the monk is stripping their primary heal away like its just another buff.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

The question shouldn't be "What do we do with Morale?" but "What (non-overwhelming) advantage should PvP gear have in PvP over PvE gear and how do you prevent it from being must have for PvE content?"

I'm not sure that there's an answer to that question, because it's inevitable that something becomes Best in Slot. Even in PvE content, which has far greater gear variety than PvP, eventually one specific combination of gear becomes the end of the line. FFXIV is simply designed that way. There's no real gear customization outside of glamours, because there's no variance in how a jobs are supposed to be played. A Tank is a tank, for example, and all tanks need the same stats; therefore, they all end up using the same gear. PvP is no different.

That said, I don't think that this will be nearly as big of a problem as it was back in the original Wolves Den or Frontlines game modes, because there is no longer any restrictions on who can buy PvP gear. Even if PvP gear provides an advantage in PvP that makes it BiS for that game mode, it really isn't offering anyone an unfair advantage because anyone can pick up a set without worrying about rank restrictions. New players to PvP might have to deal with some growing pains while they come up with the Wolf Marks to actually buy a set of PvP armour, but given how quickly you can get Wolf Marks, it shouldn't take too long for them to catch up.

In the end, as much as the removal of Rank Restrictions on PvP gear was a kick in the nuts to any players who actually put that effort in, it really would work out to be a favourable change should Morale be re-implemented because it would help level the playing field.