Turn 12 clear cutscene question...

[Wulfric]

I know this is old but I just finished reading the dialogue of the cutscenes after you beat Phoenix and I'm not sure what Louisoix meant at the end, the exchange was this;

Alisaie: Thank you... for everything... Pray take your rest, Grandfather... You deserve it.

Louisoix: There are records of an art that allowed one to summon the power of a primal from the essence of its demise.

Louisoix: And though I am no true primal, all that I have left, I give to you.

"bla bla bla and fades"

Does this means that he gave the remaining of his power to the twins and now, if they research said "art" they can have Phoenix-like powers? Or Louisoix-like powers? Am I reading too much into this and it's more like a "I'll always be with you" sentimental yada yada type of thing?

Sorry if this has been discussed before around here but I don't frequent the forums too much and as I said, I just found out about this.

[Nalien]

I think he was talking about Summoner? They do use the essence of a defeated Primal to summon it's power/Egi, and the twins are Arcanists... Pretty much just setting up Phoenix-Egi for the twins, I imagine. Y'mhitra even bumped into the Main Scenario to potentially give an excuse for the twins becoming Summoners.

[Wulfric]

I think he was talking about Summoner? They do use the essence of a defeated Primal to summon it's power/Egi, and the twins are Arcanists... Pretty much just setting up Phoenix-Egi for the twins, I imagine. Y'mhitra even bumped into the Main Scenario to potentially give an excuse for the twins becoming Summoners.

That makes sense. I thought he meant the summoner job but wasn't sure if there was another possibility. Maybe they'll be able to use Phoenix-egi powers to somehow restore Estinien to his normal self.

[Anonymoose]

I think he was talking about Summoner?

I took it the same way. Sometimes I'll do consolidated translations of important lines - for that one, I have:

It is said that there was once an art that allowed someone bathed in the scattering essence of a fallen primal to recreate its power.
I am not [completely/wholly/perfectly] a primal, but what strength remains me I give unto you ... that you, too, might protect that which you hold dear.

Likewise, I, too, thought it could imply that we might see them harness the Phoenix-egi one day as a last-resort.

One one hand, they plainly said that no one can know about Phoenix, lest inevitably somewhere the misguided will summon it in hopes of seeing its restoration of the realm completed (with disastrous and antithetical results). On the other hand... in an all-or-nothing scenario with no (or trustworthy) witnesses, it could come in handy. It would also create a kind of "full circle" moment for one (or, hey, both, why not) of the twins to finish off a nemesis with a Phoenix-egi dash through the chest a la Louisoix to Bahamut..

Not going to lie, it was one of the first things I imagined happening to Elidibus when I saw Alisaie creepin' on him and Urianger in Gubal.

[Nalien]

I think Alphinaud may have used the essence given from his grandfather along with some other discoveries he made during Heavensward to create Ruby and Obsidian Carbuncles.

I wonder, could Ruby and Obsidian Carbuncle, as Emerald and Topaz are for us, be "placeholders" for Egis? Ruby would make an obvious choice for Phoenix-Egi, but Obsidian? I'd guess Bahamut-Egi, but given the Summoner lore added in Heavensward, I wonder if that would even be possible... Granted, Alphinaud and Alisaie have the worlds most obtuse book to power them up, and it would be appropriate for any attempt at Summoner on their part to be a joint effort.

Then again, it seemed more like Alphinauds 'buncle was "growing" alongside him, so perhaps it is somewhat more symbolic. Phoenix famously rises from the ashes, and you could stretch a connection between Obsidian and ashes (namely a volcanic one). Which order did he get them in again? I seem to recall Obsidian last, which I did find kind of odd given its appearance... If the intention is for Phoenix-Egi to rise from the ashes of Obsidian Carbuncle though, then that seems quite fitting... I'd predict a duty in which we fight along side Alphinaud, Obsidian Carbuncle isn't enough, and Alisaie enters the fray just in time to slap their books together and pop out Phoenix-Egi.

One one hand, they plainly said that no one can know about Phoenix, lest inevitably somewhere the misguided will summon it in hopes of seeing its restoration of the realm completed (with disastrous and antithetical results). On the other hand... in an all-or-nothing scenario with no (or trustworthy) witnesses, it could come in handy. It would also create a kind of "full circle" moment for one (or, hey, both, why not) of the twins to finish off a nemesis with a Phoenix-egi dash through the chest a la Louisoix to Bahamut..

Not going to lie, it was one of the first things I imagined happening to Elidibus when I saw Alisaie creepin' on him and Urianger in Gubal.

Given it is Phoenix, I expect less of a finishing move and more of a last ditch revive. Well, I do expect Minfilia to die at some point, so it would be fitting with 2.55s conclusion of "lawl not really" to bust out a Phoenix for that. Alternatively, like Wulfric suggested, it could be used to save Estinien.

That said, I kind of wonder what would happen if you "revived" an Ascian... I mean they're immortal, but they've long since lost physical form, so would Phoenix effectively revert them back to mortals with physical form? Would be an interesting way to "defeat" them...

[Anonymoose]

I wonder, could Ruby and Obsidian Carbuncle, as Emerald and Topaz are for us, be "placeholders" for Egis?

Seeing as Emerald Carbuncle shares behavioral traits with Garuda Egi, both being wind, and Topaz Carbuncle shares behavioral traits with Titan-Egi, both being earth, I suspected that Ruby Carbuncle was the Ifrit-Egi parallel we never got. (Not like Phoenix doesn't mesh with a fire construct, if you take it in that direction, though, lol.)

Obsidian Carbuncle is harder to explain. There are six total Carbuncle models in the game (so far), and the ones that have been used are named for iLV90 magick-channeling gems. Green (Wind) is Emerald, Yellow (Earth) is Topaz, Red (Fire) is Ruby, and the unused Blue (Water) I would gather is Sapphire. You'll notice that these are the four non-polar elements.

However, rather than having the two polar Carbies (Ice and Lightning), there's a white one and a black one; perhaps for Astral and Umbral themselves. Granted, Ice (INT) gems have always been weird, since you'd get two per tier and one wouldn't be a true gem (Danburite vs. Horn, Goshenite vs. Pearl, Zircon vs. Black Pearl). It's possible that the white one is Ice and the black one is the "spare" and Lightning is just missing, but so long as Lightning fails to exist, Astral/Umbral makes more sense. That also paralleles the lack of Ramuh and Shiva egis for the time being. Thankfully, that's all moot, since whether the theoretical Diamond Carbuncle is interpreted as Astral or Ice is totally irrelevant to this topic.

Obsidian has been made from volcanism and dragons. Considering Bahamut would be yet another tier of dragonfire and phoenixfire would probably work just as well... Sooo... if you want to make a connection with Carbuncle as a placeholder... I guess... feel free to speculate...?

Now that I'm thinking about it, white Carby makes a great placeholder for Miss Diamond Dust over there. If, one day, we do become powerful enough, I say give that to Shiva, add the Lightning Carbuncle for Ramuh, throw Leviathan on Sapphire, and hold Obsidian for the "spares" in case they go FFXI and start giving us all the aspect-less ones.

[DoctaruRavenbe]

I think Alphinaud may have used the essence given from his grandfather along with some other discoveries he made during Heavensward to create Ruby and Obsidian Carbuncles.

[PArcher]

I'm fairly certain we will

see phoenix-egi summoned by Alisaie in her entrance in 3.2

[Fenral]

Not to axe the Phoenix-Egi theories (because I want to see it, too), but the "essence" they were given is used in the T13 opening cutscene to summon a full-size Louisoix to shield the group from Bahamut Prime's opening shots. So it could also just be the world's shortest-lived Checkov's Gun, fired once and discarded to avoid complex out-of-continuity explanations later.