Astrologian misconceptions

[MidnightTundra]

And for the love of god, if you feel boring only adding two DoTs and spamming Malefic, don't play WHM as well. Fluid Aura is barely a thing with its 30s recast timer and range, and Aero is a potency loss most of the time; and you have that as AST as well, so you can argue that they both DPS in the same way. Now tell me: why is doing it as WHM a nice way to DPS and doing it as AST a problem?

You do Aero to avoid clipping the GCD (clipping tampers with DPS) with Fluid Aura and Assize. You can do both in one GCD depending on latency. Aero definitely still has its uses. Aero II is a low duration/high potency attack. You're not spamming stone III as much as you're spamming Malefic II because Aero III and Aero II have to be reapplied more frequently in comparison to Combust I/II. WHM also has 3 AoE skills to play with while AST has one. His boredom with AST's rotation is perfectly valid.

[TatoRazzino]

You do Aero to avoid clipping the GCD (clipping tampers with DPS) with Fluid Aura and Assize. You can do both in one GCD depending on latency. Aero definitely still has its uses. Aero II is a low duration/high potency attack. You're not spamming stone III as much as you're spamming Malefic II because Aero III and Aero II have to be reapplied more frequently in comparison to Combust I/II. WHM also has 3 AoE skills to play with while AST has one. His boredom with AST's rotation is perfectly valid.

One of the AoE things you mentioned is Assize, up every 90s; the other is Aero III I assume, which is applied not that often in AoE situations because the mobs are usually dead for two casts of Aero III be worth the GCD; the other is Holy, which you spam just like Gravity. So yeah, every other mob pull in a dungeon you get an off GCD and once every pull you get to apply a HoT. Pretty boring as well, if you ask me.
If you're a good AST, you also have 3 DoTs in single target and the difference in duration you mentioned is not enough for you to say you wouldn't be bored as WHM; in one minute, you cast Stone III maybe two or three times less than you cast Malefic II, so I have absolutely no idea where that point is coming from. It's not as if you get a complete new animation from Aero II that makes it even a thing to break the so called boredom of spamming your burst damage spell.

If you guys want to talk about the advantages of WHM over AST, do it like Sleigh and talk about something real instead of bringing up ridiculous differences in DPS rotation that do nothing in an actual fight.

[MidnightTundra]

Snip

I'm not talking about advantages. I'm talking about his opinion on how "fun" AST's DPS rotation is to him. It is a perfectly valid opinion because it is his opinion. I never claimed that WHM's DPS rotation is factually more fun than ASTs. All I did was tell you how Aero I could be used and I talked about the frequency of which buttons he presses on his hot bar. If he's not having fun with it, he's not having fun with it.

Your "Holier than thou" attitude when it comes to AST is a little out there as well.

[TatoRazzino]

I'm not talking about advantages. I'm talking about his opinion on how "fun" AST's DPS rotation is to him. It is a perfectly valid opinion because it is his opinion. I never claimed that WHM's DPS rotation is factually more fun than ASTs. All I did was tell you how Aero I could be used and I talked about the frequency of which buttons he presses on his hot bar. If he's not having fun with it, he's not having fun with it.

Your "Holier than thou" attitude when it comes to AST is a little out there as well.

Did you even read what I said about Aero in the first place? No. You also didn't read when I said that you can use Aero on AST (and SCH). So, please, stop replying to only half of the argument.

An opinion is not valid just because it's an opinion. If you ignore half of the data and say something claiming it's only your opinion, that does not make your claim valid; it can make you dumb.

The first person I was replying to had issues with AST because he doesn't know how some things work. That's not a valid opinion. He finds Aero more fun and useful than Combust because of the initial hit, and claimed that this aspect made WHM more fun DPSwise. Not only he didn't know that you should be using Aero as AST (as you should as SCH), but he also didn't know how DoTs work, what's the actual benefit of Aero or Combust, and he also didn't know how off-GCD skills work. So, please, stop saying that his opinion is valid; his opinion is fruit of ignorance, and it's not valid precisely because of that. Not pointing it out is not polite, nor humble, and it defeats the purpose of having a forum.

[MidnightTundra]

Ignoring data? What are you even on about?

I'm talking about Roxas finding the DPS rotation on AST boring. I find ninja boring but my buddy can't get enough of it. Is he the fruit of ignorance because I don't agree with him?

And no you're wrong. Aero isn't a DPS loss most of the time if you're properly using Fluid Aura without clipping the GCD. Aero should have a 60% uptime in relation to 100% uptime on the target with proper offensive oGCD usage. (obviously for WHM)

Now tell me: why is doing it as WHM a nice way to DPS and doing it as AST a problem? Double standards.
It's so annoying having to respond to ridiculous claims over and over, so please stop.

This is the reason why responded to you in the first place. If damage based oGCD skills tickle his fancy and green swirly lines gives him butterflies in his stomach then why do you have to jump on him for that?

[Roxas_Andrade]

The first person I was replying to had issues with AST because he doesn't know how some things work. That's not a valid opinion. He finds Aero more fun and useful than Combust because of the initial hit, and claimed that this aspect made WHM more fun DPSwise. Not only he didn't know that you should be using Aero as AST (as you should as SCH), but he also didn't know how DoTs work, what's the actual benefit of Aero or Combust, and he also didn't know how off-GCD skills work. So, please, stop saying that his opinion is valid; his opinion is fruit of ignorance, and it's not valid precisely because of that. Not pointing it out is not polite, nor humble, and it defeats the purpose of having a forum.

I never said Aero is better than Combust, neither I said that WHM is more fun. The thread is about why people think AST is bad or just worse than the other healers.
Of course I know you should use Aero as every healing class, and even told Aero is important to AST, after all it's the only instant cast skill they have that can do an initial hit on something to help with some mechanics...

If WHM has a wider tool set than AST, it's obvious they have more things to do. Even if they're locked behind a big CD, their skills are used sometime. If you can't spam assize it doesn't make the skill unusable and if you think there is no content up up to the skill, this doens't mean it's not there. And even if you use it every other pull, it's still something you can count on. AST can't count on skills like that anytime.

It's not that I want to make AST a copy of WHM, every class has its perks and i'm ok with all of them. We shouldn't discuss which class is funnier either, because that's personal. MY OPINION is that you have more options as WHM and SHC than you have as AST, it doesn't make the AST job bad - but if we had those options in battle, AST wouldn't be worse either.

As for what I do or don't know: show me a FACT I said that is wrong.

[TatoRazzino]

I never said Aero is better than Combust, neither I said that WHM is more fun. The thread is about why people think AST is bad or just worse than the other healers.
Of course I know you should use Aero as every healing class, and even told Aero is important to AST, after all it's the only instant cast skill they have that can do an initial hit on something to help with some mechanics...

If WHM has a wider tool set than AST, it's obvious they have more things to do. Even if they're locked behind a big CD, their skills are used sometime. If you can't spam assize it doesn't make the skill unusable and if you think there is no content up up to the skill, this doens't mean it's not there. And even if you use it every other pull, it's still something you can count on. AST can't count on skills like that anytime.

It's not that I want to make AST a copy of WHM, every class has its perks and i'm ok with all of them. We shouldn't discuss which class is funnier either, because that's personal. MY OPINION is that you have more options as WHM and SHC than you have as AST, it doesn't make the AST job bad - but if we had those options in battle, AST wouldn't be worse either.

As for what I do or don't know: show me a FACT I said that is wrong.

Your initial post was a reply to my comment on another post, so look at what the person posted to know what I meant.

And good luck counting on Assize for DPS; it has a pretty effect, specially when it misses more than half of the targets in level 60 content and you want to cry.

It's not a fact that WHM and SCH have more options than AST; they have different options, that's the fact. It's also a fact that AST can't have those options because if it did, the job balance would be broken. Would you take a WHM to any actual content if AST could match it in AoE burst (both healing and damage), while still retaining the ability to buff party members with cards and keeping its mobility? If your answer is yes, then you'd have a hard time finding a group, since AST/SCH would be considered mandatory in that case.