Astrologian misconceptions

[Roxas_Andrade]

I'm actually glad that you posted this in this misconception thread, because some of your problems with the job are fixed by looking at things in a different way.

Well, saying the skill is an ability and not a spell doesn't change the fact that AST doesn't have acces to anything like it. We still could have some of them...
If SCH is supposed to use stacks for something else than indomitabiity and energy drain, there's not a lot of options left... SCH should use their resources according to the situation.

What I mean is: AST has a great toolset, so much that I miss buffing someone when I'm a WHM... But it still feels that we lack something...
To tell the truth, it's kinda boring using just two Dots and spam malefic II. We could use more attack skills sometimes. If stella was instant or off GCD, we could make a lot more out of it. People say it could unbalance PVP, but heavy is halved everytime you cast it, so I don't think it would be a problem.
I agree with the things people say about shuffle, and I would love to see it not drawing the same card again, after all, the reason I use it is to not have that card at that moment...
As for CO, it relly lets me down sometimes... We have a long CD for something that would only help with one tick of LA, Asp.Helios or CU - two if you're lucky to time it right with the server ticking. The stun thing is also something that you can only use once during a pull and usually you don't get it to full potential because you don't have all that hots and spread cards on everyone by the time you use it for the stun. I would suggest that CO was still insta-cast, but on GCD. Sounds like too powerful, but think of it: stun wouldn't last forever - Holy's doesn't so CO's shouldn't either. Extending buffs indefinitely wouldn't also be a thing, since the skill would now spend mp that you could be using for something else and refreshing 5sec of a buff on a 3sec CD wouldn't be that great anyway...

And we can always hope for some better, different skills in the next expansion...

[TatoRazzino]

Well, saying the skill is an ability and not a spell doesn't change the fact that AST doesn't have acces to anything like it. We still could have some of them...

It changes a lot. WHM having the power to blast an off-GCD every 90s is not something that will flip the table in healing as much as people claim it would. In 4-person content, it's not needed and in 8-man it's also not needed when your healing partner also have access to it. Using both Indomitability and Assize is not necessary in any encounter designed so far, so AST not having anything like that is not hurting anything and it's hardly something that brings the job down. WHM having no mitigation is not regarded as a problem, so why would AST not having a not needed instant cast AoE healing skill be a problem? Stop trying to transform AST in a WHM with cards. If they had all the tools a WHM has, WHM would become useless; is that what you guys want?

And for the love of god, if you feel boring only adding two DoTs and spamming Malefic, don't play WHM as well. Fluid Aura is barely a thing with its 30s recast timer and range, and Aero is a potency loss most of the time; and you have that as AST as well, so you can argue that they both DPS in the same way. Now tell me: why is doing it as WHM a nice way to DPS and doing it as AST a problem? Double standards.
It's so annoying having to respond to ridiculous claims over and over, so please stop.

[MidnightTundra]

And for the love of god, if you feel boring only adding two DoTs and spamming Malefic, don't play WHM as well. Fluid Aura is barely a thing with its 30s recast timer and range, and Aero is a potency loss most of the time; and you have that as AST as well, so you can argue that they both DPS in the same way. Now tell me: why is doing it as WHM a nice way to DPS and doing it as AST a problem?

You do Aero to avoid clipping the GCD (clipping tampers with DPS) with Fluid Aura and Assize. You can do both in one GCD depending on latency. Aero definitely still has its uses. Aero II is a low duration/high potency attack. You're not spamming stone III as much as you're spamming Malefic II because Aero III and Aero II have to be reapplied more frequently in comparison to Combust I/II. WHM also has 3 AoE skills to play with while AST has one. His boredom with AST's rotation is perfectly valid.

[TatoRazzino]

You do Aero to avoid clipping the GCD (clipping tampers with DPS) with Fluid Aura and Assize. You can do both in one GCD depending on latency. Aero definitely still has its uses. Aero II is a low duration/high potency attack. You're not spamming stone III as much as you're spamming Malefic II because Aero III and Aero II have to be reapplied more frequently in comparison to Combust I/II. WHM also has 3 AoE skills to play with while AST has one. His boredom with AST's rotation is perfectly valid.

One of the AoE things you mentioned is Assize, up every 90s; the other is Aero III I assume, which is applied not that often in AoE situations because the mobs are usually dead for two casts of Aero III be worth the GCD; the other is Holy, which you spam just like Gravity. So yeah, every other mob pull in a dungeon you get an off GCD and once every pull you get to apply a HoT. Pretty boring as well, if you ask me.
If you're a good AST, you also have 3 DoTs in single target and the difference in duration you mentioned is not enough for you to say you wouldn't be bored as WHM; in one minute, you cast Stone III maybe two or three times less than you cast Malefic II, so I have absolutely no idea where that point is coming from. It's not as if you get a complete new animation from Aero II that makes it even a thing to break the so called boredom of spamming your burst damage spell.

If you guys want to talk about the advantages of WHM over AST, do it like Sleigh and talk about something real instead of bringing up ridiculous differences in DPS rotation that do nothing in an actual fight.

[MidnightTundra]

Snip

I'm not talking about advantages. I'm talking about his opinion on how "fun" AST's DPS rotation is to him. It is a perfectly valid opinion because it is his opinion. I never claimed that WHM's DPS rotation is factually more fun than ASTs. All I did was tell you how Aero I could be used and I talked about the frequency of which buttons he presses on his hot bar. If he's not having fun with it, he's not having fun with it.

Your "Holier than thou" attitude when it comes to AST is a little out there as well.

[TatoRazzino]

I'm not talking about advantages. I'm talking about his opinion on how "fun" AST's DPS rotation is to him. It is a perfectly valid opinion because it is his opinion. I never claimed that WHM's DPS rotation is factually more fun than ASTs. All I did was tell you how Aero I could be used and I talked about the frequency of which buttons he presses on his hot bar. If he's not having fun with it, he's not having fun with it.

Your "Holier than thou" attitude when it comes to AST is a little out there as well.

Did you even read what I said about Aero in the first place? No. You also didn't read when I said that you can use Aero on AST (and SCH). So, please, stop replying to only half of the argument.

An opinion is not valid just because it's an opinion. If you ignore half of the data and say something claiming it's only your opinion, that does not make your claim valid; it can make you dumb.

The first person I was replying to had issues with AST because he doesn't know how some things work. That's not a valid opinion. He finds Aero more fun and useful than Combust because of the initial hit, and claimed that this aspect made WHM more fun DPSwise. Not only he didn't know that you should be using Aero as AST (as you should as SCH), but he also didn't know how DoTs work, what's the actual benefit of Aero or Combust, and he also didn't know how off-GCD skills work. So, please, stop saying that his opinion is valid; his opinion is fruit of ignorance, and it's not valid precisely because of that. Not pointing it out is not polite, nor humble, and it defeats the purpose of having a forum.

[MidnightTundra]

Ignoring data? What are you even on about?

I'm talking about Roxas finding the DPS rotation on AST boring. I find ninja boring but my buddy can't get enough of it. Is he the fruit of ignorance because I don't agree with him?

And no you're wrong. Aero isn't a DPS loss most of the time if you're properly using Fluid Aura without clipping the GCD. Aero should have a 60% uptime in relation to 100% uptime on the target with proper offensive oGCD usage. (obviously for WHM)

Now tell me: why is doing it as WHM a nice way to DPS and doing it as AST a problem? Double standards.
It's so annoying having to respond to ridiculous claims over and over, so please stop.

This is the reason why responded to you in the first place. If damage based oGCD skills tickle his fancy and green swirly lines gives him butterflies in his stomach then why do you have to jump on him for that?

[Roxas_Andrade]

The first person I was replying to had issues with AST because he doesn't know how some things work. That's not a valid opinion. He finds Aero more fun and useful than Combust because of the initial hit, and claimed that this aspect made WHM more fun DPSwise. Not only he didn't know that you should be using Aero as AST (as you should as SCH), but he also didn't know how DoTs work, what's the actual benefit of Aero or Combust, and he also didn't know how off-GCD skills work. So, please, stop saying that his opinion is valid; his opinion is fruit of ignorance, and it's not valid precisely because of that. Not pointing it out is not polite, nor humble, and it defeats the purpose of having a forum.

I never said Aero is better than Combust, neither I said that WHM is more fun. The thread is about why people think AST is bad or just worse than the other healers.
Of course I know you should use Aero as every healing class, and even told Aero is important to AST, after all it's the only instant cast skill they have that can do an initial hit on something to help with some mechanics...

If WHM has a wider tool set than AST, it's obvious they have more things to do. Even if they're locked behind a big CD, their skills are used sometime. If you can't spam assize it doesn't make the skill unusable and if you think there is no content up up to the skill, this doens't mean it's not there. And even if you use it every other pull, it's still something you can count on. AST can't count on skills like that anytime.

It's not that I want to make AST a copy of WHM, every class has its perks and i'm ok with all of them. We shouldn't discuss which class is funnier either, because that's personal. MY OPINION is that you have more options as WHM and SHC than you have as AST, it doesn't make the AST job bad - but if we had those options in battle, AST wouldn't be worse either.

As for what I do or don't know: show me a FACT I said that is wrong.