Astrologian misconceptions

[Hysterior]

Can someone tell me what exactly makes people hate on Astro?

WHM does the WHM job better
SCH does the SCH job better
AST stances are not as good as the jobs it tries to copy

and then for progression, a RNG job is not the best.
Yeah AST is pretty sweet when you get Fire buff a lot but you can also end up with useless cards and your healing is not as strong as the other one and you mana starve when you DPS.

Having said that, it's perfectly adequate for most content. It's just what AST can do, the others 2 healers do it better.
WHM/SCH still the dream combo.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Having said that, it's perfectly adequate for most content. It's just what AST can do, the others 2 healers do it better.
WHM/SCH still the dream combo.

Interesting. Do share examples where the White Mage kit has an obvious advantage over Astrologian with current content. While you're at it, how much mitigation a whm/sch combo can provide together over ast/sch

[Sleigh]

Interesting. Do share examples where the White Mage kit has an obvious advantage over Astrologian with current content. While you're at it, how much mitigation a whm/sch combo can provide together over ast/sch

The main in-your-face advantages of WHM over AST are Benediction and Assize. Benediction is strong; especially if used with Living Dead, WHM can do a lot of DPS with Living Dead whereas it requires a legitimate amount of MP/resources/time to save a DRK on AST. It can be used for pure DPS or a big MP saver or just a big emergency heal, just a great skill overall that's unique to WHM and is one of the reasons WHM can DPS more often than AST. Assize is for instant MP occasionally, DPS on adds/AoE, or AoE burst healing, all strong attributes AST doesn't really get on demand. Most of the kit is otherwise sidegrade-ish, but notably Disable being undisputed better than regular Virus in current fights, with how Anti-Body works.

Asylum is better in some scenarios, Collective is better in some scenarios (usually Collective can be better for mega attacks but if it's used as just a tank regen it's usually better to plop down Asylum than run up, possibly in the way of mechanics/cleaves, and wait for 2-3s for Collective to tick), same with DS/Synastry (DS usually better but when Synastry is hot it's HOT) and Tetra/Essential and PoM/Lightspeed (although in general, in current content, PoM is more useful since content has so little mobility required). Arguably Shroud's aggro control over LA is a real advantage, and it is, but that's more an annoyance than a strong advantage because the two points aggro can be an issue, A3 and Thordan, the boss isn't threatening for a while past the phase shift.

I'm not much for saying AST is weaker, and that's not the point of this post, in fact I'm kind of an AST white knight these days. To answer your question, Assize and Benediction are just things AST doesn't have an active answer to besides making sure they're not needed. Usually with more time spent healing or making sure there are less mistakes to warrant them.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Snip

Well... no point if you answer it when the person in question's selling it-

[AzureFlare]

Stuff

The fact that people are still stuck in 'The WHM job' and 'The SCH job' is a problem more than anything.

That and the fact the way SCH plays is just disgusting. Arguably highest comfort and highest potential in way too many areas. You don't need to be a great SCH to do content and a great SCH beats a great N.AST hands down (and you don't need a D.AST anyway). And I say disgusting comparing it to either AST or WHM.
I don't even know why Nocturnal Sect exists if they intend to leave SCH like it is: programmers need to make more exceptions, designers need to work around it, PvPers hate seeing an AST run around (unless on their side) and in PvE the amount of things you are outclassed with by a SCH I can't even count on two hands. If anything, N.AST feels like having side-wheels on your bike while learning to ride it and the moment and Diurnal is like taking them off and gaining some speed (literally) in the current scheme of things.

Now compare AST to WHM and they actually have proper weaknesses and strengths, and they will both see daylight in fairly equal ilvls. All SE needs to do is actually design fights so that one isn't consistently favored over the other. I don't even know why people are still debating WHM/SCH > AST/SCH when most are near ilvl 210 and we have no idea how encounters (or balance) in 3.2 will be anyway.

Edit: Though I bashed on N.AST, I do enjoy Nocturnal Sect in every way from a personal point of view and I much rather play AST and go WHM/N.AST than SCH and go WHM/SCH, if my partner can only play WHM. I just don't see Nocturnal Sect's worth from an advantage/disadvantage point of view and it could be so much more if either SCH was changed or Nocturnal Sect/AST as a whole was changed. However, WHM/N.AST is fine and perfectly viable for all content.

[Sidra]

One thing I do wonder, the one major advantage an AST/SCH combo would have is in mitigation. It just hasn't been needed in 3.0 thus far. WHM doesn't really bring anything, while AST has Disable which stacks with Virus, and Collective Unconscious. If we ever get to another Gigaflare situation, where people are literally rocking full vit right sides to survive - you'd have to imagine 20% more from an AST could swing it to normal accessories, which would be a very strong party DPS increase vs the WHM/SCH combo.

[Syzygian]

This is the case with all of the new jobs, and its happening because all of them are edging out another job of their type under specific circumstances.

I main DRK and I have been trying really hard to stamp out misconceptions and misinformation everywhere I find it but its still out there. Yoshi P did say that DRK/AST/MCH are all "advanced" jobs and have a much lower skill floor/higher skill ceiling than those before them. They all have niches. My raid group actually has all 3 new jobs in it. (DRK/WAR/WHM/AST/DRG/NIN/MCH/BLM) DRK is almost rendering PLD obsolete in the MT department as they can bring pretty much WAR-level deeps in that position and still survive everything, with less situational utility to boot. In a group with only 1 caster and very DPS-heavy tanks MCH is a big raid-DPS boon, and their burst is no joke. Not to mention they have just about every utility imaginable.

And AST... I love my AST. Honestly, I feel like the healer that needs help is WHM. Its extremely lacking in party utility and a raid group with MH AST and OH SCH brings incredibly high raid utility. AST pairs well with either one. People nitpick its basic healing/DPS abilities but I will tolerate any of them being weaker than counterparts on WHM/SCH because those cards are no. fucking. joke.

AoE Balance and Arrow are epic raid boosts, especially in a comp like mine where we've got Storm's Eye, Disembowel, Battle Litany, Trick Attack, and Hypercharge we have raid DPS utility out the ass and back in again. Only with Fairy buffs could we have more, and our WHM is such a beast at her job we're not about to make her switch. But AST is not a bad job by any means. Harder to play? I'd imagine so. But the utility it brings in the hands of a good player is incredible.

Oh, and when I get an Arrow with Blood Weapon up my GCD is like 1.9 seconds. I become Sonic The Edgelord. I may be somewhat biased :3

[TatoRazzino]

This is the case with all of the new jobs, and its happening because all of them are edging out another job of their type under specific circumstances.

I main DRK and I have been trying really hard to stamp out misconceptions and misinformation everywhere I find it but its still out there. Yoshi P did say that DRK/AST/MCH are all "advanced" jobs and have a much lower skill floor/higher skill ceiling than those before them. They all have niches. My raid group actually has all 3 new jobs in it. (DRK/WAR/WHM/AST/DRG/NIN/MCH/BLM) DRK is almost rendering PLD obsolete in the MT department as they can bring pretty much WAR-level deeps in that position and still survive everything, with less situational utility to boot. In a group with only 1 caster and very DPS-heavy tanks MCH is a big raid-DPS boon, and their burst is no joke. Not to mention they have just about every utility imaginable.

And AST... I love my AST. Honestly, I feel like the healer that needs help is WHM. Its extremely lacking in party utility and a raid group with MH AST and OH SCH brings incredibly high raid utility. AST pairs well with either one. People nitpick its basic healing/DPS abilities but I will tolerate any of them being weaker than counterparts on WHM/SCH because those cards are no. fucking. joke.

AoE Balance and Arrow are epic raid boosts, especially in a comp like mine where we've got Storm's Eye, Disembowel, Battle Litany, Trick Attack, and Hypercharge we have raid DPS utility out the ass and back in again. Only with Fairy buffs could we have more, and our WHM is such a beast at her job we're not about to make her switch. But AST is not a bad job by any means. Harder to play? I'd imagine so. But the utility it brings in the hands of a good player is incredible.

Oh, and when I get an Arrow with Blood Weapon up my GCD is like 1.9 seconds. I become Sonic The Edgelord. I may be somewhat biased :3

I said to my raid group that I was considering switching to WHM for A3S progression and the four DPS in the group screamed THE F**K YOU ARE, WE WANT CARDS! in voice chat. It was very nice to see that all the effort I put in learning their rotations wasn't wasted; they notice my cards, and that's the biggest concern of every AST. For my group at least, it pays off, and whenever I run content (like Thordan) as WHM, the overall DPS loss is noticeable, so the group is more comfortable with the SCH having to drop Cleric every now and then to use Indomitability than it is with me being able to handle all AoE damage by myself.

[Fernosaur]

I don't personally like playing AST, but I am of the opinion that the best party comp right now is diAST/SCH simply because of how much raid utility the cards and the fairies give. However, it's also true that Astrologian has a higher skill cap than WHM because it's slightly less reliable and requires much much more micromanaging with cards and royal road and whatnot. Not to say AST isn't reliable, but WHM is just easier with the higher potency and bigger range.

It's true that NoctAST can't really compare to SCH as a barrier role, but I don't think that's entirely a bad thing per se, since AST has the cards regardless of their sect. In any case, the thing that makes SCH stand out the most is the fairy, in my opinion, and the piss easy MP management the class allows.

[technole]

The job is completely reliable in all end-game content, any notion that it isn't is a player issue. AST regen ticks/potency isn't much of an issue, aside from the amount of GCDs you could have "free" on WHM compared to AST over the course of a long fight if you got full value from each tick. The latest potency enhancements to AST healing potency was in my opinion to make up for not having the MND buff when replacing a WHM. On the other hand you also have to manage healing differently, Aspected Benefic has the front-loaded heal over WHM Regen, which is why it costs more MP.

Range "issue" is a bit overblown. Stems from White Mage mains being used to 20y Medica II. Scholar skills including Whispering Dawn is 15y. Of course someone will say they are not the main healer, and yet they were given an enhanced AoE toolkit this go around, albeit with resource usage. In the end it takes is raid and postional coordination.